No one was more disappointed with Venom in Spider-Man 3 than I was. The afterthought cramming of the character into a story that already had two villians not only reduced one encounter to a three movie anticlimax, but tried to force the Venom issue too soon.
So almost in a damage control move, Sony has confirmed it will move forward with a stand alone Venom film.
Unfortunately, there isn’t much to say about the movie this early in the game. Wernick says that the pair is basically sworn to secrecy about the project, but they did confirm that they were big fans of the character and planned to treat him with the respect he deserves. “We read [Venom] growing up, but we were not experts,” admits Reese. “We certainly know the mythology of Venom, but went back and learned more when it became clear that we could actually get this job.”
The way this should have been handled would have been to have Spiderman 3 revolve around Peter Parker’s internal struggle with the agressively dark tendencies brought on by the symbiot black costume while the three episode story arc of the Goblin steamed to a head with Osborne finally dealing with the death of his father.
It would end with Parker triumphing over the influence of the symbiot costume, and it slithering away looking for a new host leading into a Venom story. There’s your followup Spiderman film the fans wanted to see. But instead we get an effort to recover the fan following of the character in a spinoff film.
Better late than never.
But if Venom is the star, then we know it won’t be against Spider-man (cause then it would be Spiderman 4), so a new adversary will have to come forward. And that likely means a redemption story for Venom (or at least his host). A little bit of a parallel to the Hulk, a menace with his own power overcoming his capacity for destruction.
The only way to make the fans happy with this one might be Carnage.
Yeah, they could actually have a tale of a villan (almost or exactly like a monster film) kinda like a wolfman. just w/ Venom Y’know?
The Alien host thing could be the whole platform and move from host to host (The Thing?) and have Eddie Brock’s story.
Could Totally Work…
This could work. The first thing they need to do is abandon Topher Grace for the role. He was half the reason why Venom in SM3 was the worst job anyone has ever done with a comic character. Not only did he look nothing like Eddie Brock and wasn’t nearly big enough, his portrayal was this wanna-be ladies man, who thought he was slick, always tried to look nice, when in fact the ladies thought he was a puke, which is exactly how you don’t portray Eddie Brock. The other half of the reason was Sam Raimi, who clearly implied that he hates Venom. Without those two factors there is hope. Venom/Eddie Brock in the comics was a deeply depressed, schizophrenic, sadistic psychopath who had an unending hatred for Spider-Man. Since Spider-Man can’t be in this movie, have that hatred be towards Carnage somehow. Venom also needs to be huge, the symbols on his chest and back need to be more visible, and he needs to be scary looking. I also see how the Maximum Carnage story could be played into this movie. Another important trait that SM3 missed was how Venom always referred to himself as “we” or “us”. This movie is the only chance that we will be able to see Venom done right for the next ten years.
Considering Spiderman is getting the reboot, I would imagine this is as well.
In spider man3 I noticed that Topher’s character refered to himself as Eddie Brock “JR.” Why they put a junior at the end of his name seems wierd, but it gives me a good idea. Maybe they can make the new Venom host his father, “Eddie Brock senior”. He could be a journalist (like the comics) investigating his son’s disappearance and somehow comes in contact with the symbiote and then runs a rampage. how does that sound for a start? Then the symbiote can leave him to be arrested where he shares a cell with Cletus Kassidy and the Carnage begins. What do you guys think? Does that seem plausable. Wait heres the kicker. At the end of the movie Eddie Brock sees a newspaper issue of the daily bugle with spider-man on the cover and that triggers a memory from the symbiote to Eddie and Vemon sets his sights on his next target. Epic
The biggest disappointment was that they spent so much time marketing the fact that Venom was finally going to face Spider Man and all we got was less than 20 minutes of some lame semblance of Venom. Topher Grace did not have the intensity to pull off the role and Venom wasn’t nearly as badass as he should have been.
A spin-off is an even worse idea. What are you going to tell about him? We know his origin and he’s already faced Spidey. What makes his character great is his interaction with Spider Man. With no Spider Man the only alternative I can see is Carnage.
If Venom is the hero of the film, I can’t imagine any other villain than Carnage?
The real problem is that even if it is Venom vs. Carnage, it won’t have as much violence as there should be. I mean come on its sony here. They’re gonna want a pg 13 rating, so they can market it to the kids and sell toys. Can you really picture Venom and Carnage with out blood and guts?
After decades of reading the comics from which the characters orignated, YES!
There was no blood and guts in the comics, so why do you think we suddenly need them in a movie.
The outfit adds mass, and can reshape into claws. Who says they cannot illustrate violence without showing entrails?
I agree that this is a terrible idea.
chuck
I’m a huge Spidey fan, and a big fan of Venom too … but I don’t think a Venom movie will work. He’s a great character, but I think they’d do better by simply bringing him back in the next Spider-Man movie.
I agree with some others who say that Venom should never have been in SP3. At least, not in the way that he was put in it. As Rodney stated, they could have introduced the idea of Venom at the end of the movie with the symbiote looking for a new host. Could have made an awesome segue into the fourth film.
Also, I wasn’t too keen on Topher Grace in this role. Eddie Brock (and of course, Venom) is a big guy. They need someone physically bigger for this part.
I highly doubt venom will face carnage, for among the rules and restraints the writers had, im sure one of them were not to include any spider-man foes including carnage.
What restraints? Sony has the rights to the Spiderman franchise and his rogues gallery.
There are no restraints saying that Venom cannot fight Carnage.
First things first.
Without Venom in Spider-Man 3, we still would have had three bad guys but a slightly different story. Venom replaced Vulture. I don’t think 3 was 100% horrible. Was it was good as the two before it? No. And, as noted, it still made tons of pocket change.
It’s said Venom wasn’t done justice in 3. I’m not quite sure on that- if the true adversary was the symbiont itself. However, I also think Brock’s introduction was fine as the Goblin arc wound down. Brock would then be party to the “next” arc. I will concede that Venom should have been set up for 4 or 5.
I’d much rather have seen Sandman get a spinoff film, as part of Silver Sable’s Wild Pack, but that’s just my wishful thinking.
Anyway, second things second…
“A stand alone film”
Yecccckkk.
Okay, let’s toss The Lethal Protector in San Francisco, so we can avoid Spidey. There’s no real need for Spidey because we can’t have Venom without Spidey. You can’t have your butter and forget the toast.
Recasting the role isn’t a big thing. The character can still be Eddie Brock. Heck, maybe his “death” in Spider-Man 3 altered his appearance (that’s not a stretch,BTW) but I’d like to have some small connection to Spidey at the very least.
Now, who would Venom be up against? Here are the nominees and the pros and cons of each:
1- Carnage
pros
See the above comments; an obvious choice. Cletus will still be a multiple killer, but that will be part of his background character. If he does serial killings before (or after) he is Carnage, such deaths will take place offscreen. Think of it like…well, in Jurassic Park when the raptor killed and ate Sam Jackson’s character. You never saw it happen, but you know it did.
cons
Some “fans” will ask for an R rating, never happen. Also since Carnage is red, and the likeness is in passing to both Venom and Spidey…call me skeptical.
2- Scream, Phage, Riot, Lasher, and Agony
pros
My personal choice. This is more to a nod of the limited comics miniseries ‘Venom Lethal Protector’ and if one wanted to get “away” from Spidey but focus on Venom, this could be a solution, and keep (some) fans happy.
cons
“Some” fans. There are those who didn’t like Venom’s sudden neutrality/defender status. Also this bunch, while fair game, isn’t as fan-loved as Carnage.
3- and hold on to your chairs for this one. The Scorpion/Scorpion
pros
Okay. Bear with me here. Let’s say you’re adapting and don’t like choice #1 or #2. Whatcha gonna do? A quick brainstorm. You (or, at least, myself, but I think we will be on the same page in a second) let’s say …
Venom shows up in city X and Spider-Man isn’t around because he’s got his webs full of Lizard, Kraven or Morbius or whoever he’s fighting in part 4. In the comics, “Scorpion” was created because JJ thought Spidey was the menace and it turned out to be the other way around. Scorpion almost killed Spidey at that. But that’s in the comics. In this doghouse the John Q Public thinks that Venom is a threat and Spidey is off doing whatever. Someone “creates” Scorpion to fight Venom.
Venom has his butt handed to him. Just one…problem.
The symbiont attaches itself to The Scorpion!
Mac Gargan is now Venom. Ta-da!
There’s a piece of Symbiont left with Brock. Brock becomes Venom to fight the newer, bigger threat, Scorpion/Venom.
I know. You love me.
cons
The above will fall on deaf ears; I am but a voice in the wilderness. It will never happen.
Sorry for the long comment (did ya really miss ’em, really?) but you can rest assured I am not writing this script.
Sad, huh?
Extremely good points. Out of those suggestions, I believe that the Scorpion would be a FANTASTIC choice for an adversary, especially the way you presented him. I recall in his introductory arc, Scorpion was slowly driven insane due to not being able to take the suit off. Perhaps say if he became increasingly unbalanced throughout the movie, because of the suit…Only to go completely over the edge whenever say..while trying to rip the suit off in some beserker rage, the symbiote (attracted by the anger and aggression)latches onto the Scorpion, thus thoroughly fusing the armor onto his body?
The symbiote’s overwhelming influence + increased feelings of hopelessness = Completely INSANE villain that sees no difference between right and wrong.
Awesome news. I’m so glad this thing is officially now a go. Venom is hands down one of the best comic book villains ever. He’s creepy, cool looking, flat out evil, and sometimes crazy as hell and who wouldn’t want to have powers like his? He has a very rich and interesting story as well.
I can see how this can be a great new and interesting take on the comic book movie genera. Having a villain as the lead instead, and showing just how hard it is to be one, and to have that villain come out on top for once would be even better.
I just can’t wait to see how this one turns out and mad props to Marvel for wanting to give Venom a much better chance in the spot light.
I got to preface with this, I’m more a “backstory” & “origin” kinda guy. Big action scenes are cool, especially nowadays, but I can live without them.
I didn’t think SPM3 was that bad (The musical thing was not cool!) and I enjoyed the way they portrayed Sandman and Venom especially in their “human” forms.
That said the eding was O.K. but there was a lot going on to be sure. I don’t think they really messed up Venom, I think they knew they could develop the character in on his own,I mean he was so popular in the comics.
That said I think this has about a 50/50 chance of rockin’
I think they could pull it off without “another” villian. Eddie Brock’s story is deep enough (Like an anti-Superman) to just have Spider-Man as a refferance at first and if it does well box office wise they could budget for more Spider-Man for the second one and develop the origin more.
High hopes for this…
I’m surprised that people actually care? I mean… after Spider-Man 3, who really has any interest in Spider-Man films. Same thing with the X-Men films… Does anyone really care about this new Wolverine movie? and Same thing with many of the other superhero films except maybe Batman and Iron Man… Marvel has saturated the genre… with some good and some very bad adaptations… but now people are tired of the superhero films.
You seem over eager to condemn a franchise for one bad chapter. Spiderman 3 – despite the failure most think it was – made close to $900million world wide. I would say there is PLENTY of interest still there.
People might be a bit more cautious, but they are not ignorant enough to write it off that easily.
And there is a lot of positive buzz leading up to Wolverine.
Perhaps YOU are tired of Superhero films, but with Iron Man (also a Marvel film since you seem confused), Batman and the ramping up anticipation of coming hero films, there is clearly a market for these films.
Its far from over even if you want to be negative about it.
i say to thee nay, the coming storm of hero films shall wash away those that…..ah, i just want them to stop and think about things and not rush into any lame storylines or cast someone just because of a name.
Oh, and as for the villain, thats no problem, they can always use one of Spider-Mans villains that wasnt used in the comics because a lot of those villains had fights with Venom
Scorpion wore the suit for a while
S.H.I.E.L.D. is always trying to kick Venoms ass but fail miserably. They tried to mess with his venom goo for some reason..forgot why
Basically every spiderman villain has had some beef with Venom so…just throw in one of those guys (that havent been used ion the spiderman films)
Kraven
Not Mysterio
Rhyno
Electro
Volture
Beetle
Theres like a hundred
So it obviously wont be Eddie Brock
Who will wear the suit? I know there have been others that wore it but…Brock was the main one basically
I say they have Venom fight Carnage and that army of Pink Symbiotes that Doc Oc created in the comics (without including Doc Oc in the movie of course)
Or they can have Eddie Brocks ex-wife get the venom goo on her, shes a lawyer, she was venom for a while
There was also a mafia guy that buys the Venom goo from Eddie for like a million dollars and becomes Venom for a while
OR!
Venom 2099
I don’t think this will work at all. Venom is a villain. Albeit at certain points he could be called an antihero, but there is no way they can stay true to the character AND make him a good guy we can get behind. And I agree, bulk him UP. I’m fine with Topher playing EDDIE BROCK, but once the symbiote covers him, we need a big guy, like Anthony said.
this is a terrible idea. just bring venom back in spiderman 4 already
oh and find some way to make sam raimi love the character enough to use him more than 5 mins
i always thought venom was a lame character.
which one had the wife and kids- was it venom or carnage?
lol wtf.
they should do a rom-com. meet the venoms.
You’re thinking of Toxin.
Eddie Brock was only in his twenties, and Carnage was a psychopath.
http://www.marvel.com/universe/Toxin
I’ve never been a fan of Venom so this will be an easy pass.
YESSSS!!!! I totally don’t want to see this happen.
How are you people bashing this? This is going to be amazing if done properly. I totally agree that we need to see Venom Vs Carnage and just make it a brutal onslaught! Take other characters from Spiderman, but do not include Spiderman, maybe throw a reference in there about Spiderman, but leave it a movie about the two of them.
I thought Catwoman was a bad idea. This sounds worse.
Did you see Catwoman? I can not imagine it being much worse. Unless he has to thwart some monster that is formed by a person falling into a vat of perfume at a perfume processing plant.
God help us all.
A big comic fan here, but this has fail written all over it. There is no way Venom can hold his own movie, unless he his paired with an equal or bigger marvel star, thats the only way to make this work. OR have Spiderman appear in a larger than cameo role.
actually I think he can “Hold his own movie” I mean the guy is pretty much the main villain for Spiderman because he is the exact opposite of him.
what I see from this movie is a backstroy of Venom’s host (more then likely will be a big biker guy having a rough day in new york) and then him becoming Venom.
I hope Rami has nothing to do with this movie. I know he said that Venom was forced on him in Spider-man 3 but it’s known that he hates the character and probably didn’t want to include him in any of the films.
I hope Topher Grace doesn’t return either.
i agree the best bet for this is to have venom face off against carnage and hopefully they get both venom and carnage done right this time
I agree that this venom will be better than topher
grace no offense you rule topher someone like a vin
diseal or a brock lensar type big man
No need to apologize for not liking Topher Grace as Venom, he was totally miscast. I think the whole problem with casting Topher Grace was, he is very similar in appearance and temperament to Toby McGuire and has that nice boy image, he just didn’t work as Venom.
You could make the argument that Topher would make a better Spiderman than McGuire as Topher has that natural smart-a## delivery he cultivated on That 70’s Show.
I like Toby as Spiderman, but he has never been able to capture Spidey’s smart-a## personality and I always felt that was missing from all the movies.
@Anti-Septic- I 100% disagree. You yourself pointed out the similarities between Topher and Tobey. That to me, is more of a reason to cast Topher. NICE BOY IMAGE? Topher was very opposite Tobey’s image in that movie. How do you not see that? Did we watch the same movie?