Did Sam Raimi spill about the villain for Spiderman 4? Well no.
He mentioned the Lizard and while I jumped with amusement hoping to finally see that character the mention was to shoot it down.
While Raimi “loves” the story of the Lizard, the Spider-Man team isn’t exactly looking to tie up those little mentions of Dr. Curt Connors. Instead, look for a baddie who will toy with Peter’s internal and external demons a little bit: “What we’re trying to do right now is really understand the journey Peter is going to go on this time and have the villain maybe be a counter to that growth, something that he has to overcome. Or maybe he has to grow in a way to overcome the villain, because there always seem to be stories of coming of age, of a young man growing up and learning things about life, so once we are identifying the exact movement that Peter has to grow to, I think the villain-and we’re trying this right now; we’re trying to choose a villain based on who would be the proper counter to that growth, so we really have dramatic conflict.”
With so many mentions and appearance of Dr Connors, he is a constant tease like that well meaning best friend you know the star is destined to fall in love with.
With talk saying they are looking for something to challenge Peter’s growth, perhaps they have his favourite college professor introduce a dramatic conflict?
I will be upset if they go with Morbius. Vampire crazies are all stocked up right now. And personally I would like to see the members of the original Sinsister Six hit up. We already got Doctor Octopus and Sandman.
Where is Vulture, Electro, Kraven the Hunter, and Mysterio? Hell, I would even love to see Rhino.
But no clones. Unless they reveal EmoPeter was a clone.
I want a movie with ben rieley and jackal and other spidey clones.Here is what i think will happen.Spidey sees jackal with ben and the others and fights all the clones.Then ben leaves during the fight.
they should do one with king pin and tie that in with the death of his parents, cuz wasnt peters dad a chemist or sum thing, king pin could have tried to get him to make or do sum thing, and he said no and gets peters dad killed and then the king pin would force dr connors to do sumthing for him and would cause an accident transforming connors into the lizard and then theres peters conflict
Kingpin will never be in a Spider-Man movie.
Ah come on. Spiderman 4 is going to crap. Sam Raimi is a genius but he was forced to use all those villians in the 3rd movie it wasn’t his movie. Venom would have been just fine without sandman (a terrible sandman at that). If we go back and look at the superman franchise after the second movie come out the guys behind the films ran out of good ideas. And made superman 3 a richard pryor movie with superman. So my point is Spiderman movie franchise is going down the same road as the superman franchise. Next we will have Spiderman4:Quest for Peace, a Spidergirl movie and to top it all off Toby Mcguire will sustain a cervical spinal cord injury after a horse accident leaving him wheel chair bound until he dies 2 years before “Spiderman Returns” is made with a terrible actor and an even more emoish Spiderman than the one in Spiderman 3. The end
Because Raimi made one bad Spiderman film (which you make excuses for anyways) you assume its all going to be bad and spiral your rant into pure nonsense.
Was there a point in there?
Coming in a bit late to the conversation, but I wouldn’t mind seeing Black Cat. I’m not enough of a comic reader to know her full story, but it could make an interesting story for Peter to have a run in with a villain who could be a counterpoint to Mary Jane. On the one hand, there’s MJ, a pretty, talented person who loves him, but will never know quite what he goes through every night as spider man. On the other hand there’s Black Cat who is an attractive talented thief who probably knows very well the sort of things that spiderman goes through every night, but has no idea about peter parker as a regular guy.
The movie would be him balancing the split life of spiderman/parker, and then suddenly running into someone who makes him question if he shouldn’t fully give over to being JUST one or the other.
The Marvel database also says that Quintin Beck, the original Mysterio was a master of make-up, physical stunt work, mechanical and visual special effects and hypnotism. He also learned a great deal of applied chemistry, especially the use of hallucinogens. So yes, Mysterio did use hallucinogens to enhance his illusions.
Rodney, I don’t think you’re getting what I’m trying to say. I’m a long time comic book reader and think the characters are nothing alike. I was simply pointing out that I could see how the general public would compare two character who’s main powers are causing hallucinations or illusions. And you’re right, the hypnogens are a very minor aspect of Mysterio’s power set and could easily be omitted, but with the success of the DK, almost every comic movie will be compared to it in some way.
“Darren J Seeley says:
???
I’m not sure I follow you P-man. DC’s Scarecrow/Nolan Batman Scarecrow is nowhere near anything like Mysterio. Not in character, costume or gadgets.”
Actually Darren, I was talking about the fact that both characters use hallucinogen as a basis for their power. Sure they’re very different in other ways, but the whole hallucination aspect of their powers is very similar.
Mysterio doesnt use Hallucinogens he is an effects artist who uses holographic projectors, hypnotism and gadgets to achieve his illusions.
Not drugs that make you crazy with fear.
Sorry Rodney,
Check Wikipedia or Marvel’s own character database. Both say that Mysterio uses drugs on top of the gadgets to produce his illusions. Marvel says he has hypnogens in his cloaking mist. I’ll agree that his drugs aren’t aimed at making you crazy with fear like the Scarecrow’s, but it’s still a character that uses drugs to cause hallucinations. That was my only point in saying they might want to stay away from using him in the films. I’d love to see him used though. He’s one of the characters that I feel would translate very well to the big screen.
And Batman drives a suped up car, so I hope people don’t confuse him with Speed Racer.
Hypnogens are not Hallucinagens. And those are a very minor part of the character’s arsenal while it is EVERYTHING the Scarecrow is.
Its a stretch to compare the two.
I’m not conerned over who the villians are, I just have my fingers crossed for an overall great movie.
Rhino……………….
I’m hoping for Scorpion or Kraven.
If you track the story back to the MTV splash page and actually listen to what Raimi says, he’s not denying the Lizard at all. He’s just playing it very coy. The long B.S. answer was just a way of trying to give the interviewer something anyway when he can’t reveal anything major yet.
I want Carnage!
Well, on the one hand, it is good news. The Lizard is a character the fan base was expecting. In a off handed way, it is a letdown. I am included. In fact, The Lizard IS set up in such a way that would fit perfectly with what Raimi describes.
*Given the fact that in the previous films, Peter’s mentor figures have died, two of them becoming his foes. Curt Connors is the only “mentor figure” left.
*The Lizard can walk on walls, and is as strong and agile as Spider-Man.
So The Lizard would, therefore, present a challenge to Parker on a “internal and external” level. Right?
However
After a minute of thought, perhaps it is better not to have Connors become the Lizard in part 4. Why? Because two previous mentors had become villains. Because it would be another “personal connection” to Peter Parker. Because it would be what people expect.
I’m a big fan of the Morbius character myself -but I would not want him in here for the same reason as Connors. While I disagree about a vampire bandwagon (“Vampires are all used up”? Since when?) I agree he should not be present.
I like the idea of Mysterio (see above); the only downside is that, due to the character’s bg, he most likely would have some connection to Mary Jane (internal and external- MJ is now dating Quintin Beck! How ya like them apples?*) and thus “damsel in distress” may be waiting to happen. Maybe she can just be in the wrong place at the wrong time, or better yet (and I lost count of how many times I make the point) have her do something noble/heroic of her own. Give MJ something to do other than just squirm and scream, y’know?
I know. They don’t listen to you, why would they listen to me?
Anyway, with Lizard out of the picture, let’s look at some possibilities.
Man-Wolf
Earlier in this comment I gave a possible that MJ and Mysterio could have a fling. We can’t rule out, however, her former fiance, the son of J. Jonah Jameson. This could also fit a mandate of ‘internal and external’. Internal being after Jameson finds out that MJ left him at the altar for Peter Parker and that relationship didn’t pan out, maybe he has some bitterness towards MJ and/or Peter? External being that he changes into a white werewolf from outer space- and in Spider-Man 2, he has the medallion.
Jonas Harrow
Harrow saved the life and modified Hammerhead (*also ‘very New York’, and great substitute for Kingpin); he also modified Living Laser, Kangaroo, and Willow The Wisp. With a bit of adaptation, in a film he also has a party to The Scorpion. In addition, he has weapons of mind control and/or sonic waves that cause paranoia and/or madness.
Internal : he gives Parker a headache, even ‘shuttiing off’ Spider-sense or cause self-doubt. External: he may have a riot to control and several foes to face with no help (Unless Wisp turns).
However, that’s my pipe dream and delusion of grandeur. So it won’t happen. Relax.
Then there’s Electro.
What if the next villain is a young dude who is given a great power with great responsibility? And chucks it away, lashing out, committing crimes, putting NYC in a total blackout? Hacks into computers without a lot of effort? Internal and external? Having a bad guy who may remind Peter of himself when he got his abilities but made wrong choices on purpose *and* effects the people and places around him.
Which leads us to The Sinister Six
Which fits the bill of “internal and external” to the max. How?
Well, if Electro is in the mix, by above reason would fit. Also…
Maybe something happens where Doc Ock is revived. Maybe it is the ARMS that control a dead corpse (?) or maybe Ock was presumed dead and the near death event driven him more mad (he was under ‘control’ of the arms)- maybe Sandman (who was let go) is either convinced to join The Six by blackmail (something bad will happen to the family) or some other means.
Mysterio does not need an elaborate origin story; only Vulture and Electro would need it.
Let’s say we can’t get Sandman or Doc Ock. Lesser Spidey villains, led by Vulture, Mysterio and Electro, then?
This is one of the only thoughtful postings on this entire thread.
Honestly, I think dumping all over the third film has gotten to be something of a full-time hobby for far, far too many people. Was it perfect? Nope. Was it garbage? Hardly. Complaining about one or two debatable problems in an otherwise well-executed picture is more than a bit akin to sending back an entire value meal simply because two of the french fries were cold.
As to the debatable stuff, I was personally elated when Venom’s on-screen incarnation failed to make it out of a single film; never have I seen such rabid devotion to such a terribly overrated character. And yes, in case you are wondering, that renders Carnage even MORE hopelessly irrelevant. The attachment seems to spawn from little more than either of those particular character’s inherent meanness, and while this may be a hallmark of villainy for some, it is the epitome of one-dimensionality for me…I like them just a bit more complicated than either of those two clowns, even if they DO look cool. Repeat appearances work well in an ongoing serial format that doesn’t require millions of dollars to make each time out…like comic books. Having a bit of closure in the cinematic adaptations is a welcome bit of fresh air, I think.
While I think your Electro ideas have substantial merit, I’m one that has cast his hat in the ring for the oft-mentioned Lizard/Kraven the Hunter “pairing.” Either would be good, but I think there’s more drama with both, and not just in a slugfest kind of way. Even better, the film could end ala ‘Kraven’s Last Hunt,’ with the Hunter bagging Spidey and burying him alive, giving us a fantastic cliffhanger finish, and setup for a next installment. There might be more variables flying around this scenario than I can lasso, but hey, it’s my all-time favorite Spidey story! :)
But I’d also like to see Raimi continue with the old-school characters by throwing either the Rhino (oh, the property damage!) or the Shocker (Bruce Campbell? LOL) in the films opening minutes, as we watch Spidey engaged in a high-energy battle. Frantic from the get-go.
Either way, I’m looking forward to seeing what happens next. Thanks for engaging your brain (and mine) with your post!
Dude, haven’t we watched Peter grow through the last 3 movies?? Enough already! Let’s have some fun and keep MJ to a fucking minimum. I don’t get why Raimi doesn’t want to go with the Lizard it feels like that storyline has been staring him in the face all along – maybe he wants to wait one more movie? Kraven, Mysterio or Vulture would all be good choices – but let’s keep away from this emotional growth idea – we already saw him go from whiny bitch boy to asshole to emo boy in the last flick. Let’s see Spidey embrace his superhero role again! And for the love of all things holy DO NOT have MJ captured and dangled from an object – again.
i really have no comment on this. eh wait, counter the growth?? what growth? emo growth? they wasted venom just because they can, now they’re talking about dramatic conflict?? pffft! we’ll see, we’ll just have to wait and see…
he would be talking about Venom – but he already screwed that up by trying to give some artsy fartsy impressionistic approach to character development. DUDE – just follow the comic once on this and you will make a Dark Knightstyle flick and give the fans and movie studio what they want – tell a story based on this this character from the comics and stop trying to re-write this into some greek novel.
Bruce Campbell for Mysterio!!! you could “Back to the Future II” the whole thing and have him be in all 3 Spidey Movies!!!!
I’d say Liam Neeson as Kraven the Hunter.
That’ll be sorta like having a “Batman Begins”-type storyline on Spiderman.
So basically what you are saying is that they are just going to kidnap Mary J again and follow the same shitfest plot all the others ones do in the exact same fucking way?? Man, when is the reboot for this franshise!!! Lets redo it Batman style…I don’t mean all dark and the such, but put more story into the characters darks deeds and character story instead of the damn love story they are concentrating on in all the previous movies. But on another note…I still think Venom and/or Carnage would be freaking awesome for a 2 movie or more villian appereance.
Isn’t Doc Ock dead? Oh, wait, it’s a comic book movie.
i think they sould bring back the sandman because he was a good villan and he should turn on venom to join forces with spider-man and HARRY should come from the dead and they should bring new villans such as waterwomen, torch, and thing.
i think they should have all 4 vilen join forces to defeat spider man. One vilen turnes on the others and help spider man. I think that it should be green goblin because they should have spider man sace his son. so the green goblin help spider man defeat the other vilens then after they defeat them they should agree to get along with each other then the other vilens should try to attack again wile they are in green goblins house and tehy should use there strenghts and every thing in the house such as bombs and etc.
Let me guess, you were a screenwriter for Spider-Man 3?
V-I-L-L-A-I-N-S…Villains.
Id actually really like to see Rhino….Or Vulture.
Either way, I just hope to god its better than the abortion that was Spiderman 3.
2 things wrong with that, both norm and harry are dead…………so find another story line, sorry buddy
It’s a comic book movie. Nobody is ever dead. Ever.
Sounds like another Spider-Man 3. The only possible thing that could be me at the most %8 excited for this film is Lizard or Carnage.
Mysterio probably fits what they’re going for the best, though I doubt they’ll stick to the fish bowl costume.
mysterio from the ultimate comic is pretty cool
I think if Mysterio were used, the fishbowl helmet would be seen, although it would also be like a two way mirror. However, I also think that if Mysterio were used we would also see him posing as Spider-Man and “just as” Quentin Beck, makeup/FX artist gone wrong.
Okay, look at it this way: ever see the movie “F/X” and/or the sequel :F/X 2″? Think of it as Ronnie Tyler, instead of being the hero-protagonist, is a clever and cunning criminal using the same gags.
I’m not suggesting Mysterio IS the bad guy, but I am saying he could suffice- so long as he is in and out of the fishbowl.
The only problem I see with them using Mysterio is they might want to avoid the inevitable comparisons to the Scarecrow from the Batman movies. Their powers are very similar and I could see people claiming that Mysterio was a blatant rip off of the Scarecrow. I’m guessing they’ll try to stay away from that. I do think that Mysterio would be a great villain. I’d also love to see Kraven The Hunter as well. Kraven and the Lizard would work. Connors becomes the Lizard, Kraven comes to town to hunt him and Peter is trying to save his friend from Kraven while trying to stop the Lizard and change him back to Doc Connors at the same time.
???
I’m not sure I follow you P-man. DC’s Scarecrow/Nolan Batman Scarecrow is nowhere near anything like Mysterio. Not in character, costume or gadgets.
I’d like to see Vulture or Kingpin.
Hugh Jackman will play Kraven the hunter on the Next Spiderman movie…
I heard it was Ryan Reynolds…
You’re both wrong. Will Smith is signed to play the Hunter Kraven.
LMAO, I heard it was down to Ryan Reynolds, Bradley Cooper and Justin Timberlake.
I think it would be cool if they incorporated both the Lizard and Kraven. There’s a subplot in one of the video games where Kraven comes to NYC to hunt Spider-man but ends up hunting the Lizard too. If that was fleshed out by an actual screenwriter, it would be a cool way to tie the two villains together without them feeling shoehorned in.
venom sounds like a perfect counter, but they already did that
Poorly.
Very poorly.
hasn’t every spiderman movie been about him growing up and overcoming something?
personaly id love to see kraven or electro
exactly, he grew the fuck up already lets see him fight and wise-crack. someone take this character away from this shmuck
Yeah, would it kill Spider-Man to crack a joke?
Spiderman cracks jokes all the time, that’s what makes him so likeable. He cracked jokes in 1, he cracked jokes in 2, and I’m pretty sure he cracked some jokes in 3, though not as many.
The comics were all about Peter growing up, so why shouldn’t the movies be? The last three were. Did they suck? Well, the third one arguably did, but I don’t think the first did, and the second just plain rocked.
My point is that Raimi is not the problem. The guy knows what he’s doing.
Spider-Man’s sense of humor is not showing much.
Does anyone talk more pseudo-intellectual rubbish than Sam Raimi? That’s the second quote by him today that sounds like it came from the mouth of a 1st year philosophy student after a few stillnox’s and a case of red bull.
Dude: just make a warcraft movie and do it good. Then make spidey four, and do it good.
Not rocket science.
amen!
Sorry, but what I mean by that is that elements like external conflict, internal conflict, exposition, context, subtext, and theme are all INTEGRAL to a solid plot. And there are tons more, of course. But Raimi mentions TWO and what ways he thinks they will be most important to the Spiderman storyline, and you’re freaking out.
Making a decent story DOES require philosophical and psychological speculation, because every story has a philosophy, and psychological inner workings. It’s always been that way.
Internal conflict is important because without emotional conflict and character flaws, Peter Parker becomes uninteresting and there’s essentially no plot. External conflict, on the other hand, are outside adversarial forces, such as Peter’s boss, the city’s society that shuns him, and of course, the villains.
Are you saying that we should throw both those elements out the window?
Sam Raimi could have summed all that up, but instead he said “internal and external conflict” for short; which, by the way, are pretty common terms. I guess I don’t see how that makes Raimi a criminal.
Yeah how dare Raimi talk about trying to create a story with drama and character tension. Give me a break Matty, do you even know how stories are developed? When you develop a story and character; philosophy and psychology are two parts of the process.
…anyway they need to bring in Carnage and throw in Venom as well. Of course Raimi doesn’t like Venom so can we just get someone else to make the movie? Thanks…
Kraven the Hunter!!!!!!1