One of the best things about the internet is the democratization of, and ability to exchange, information and ideas. When you really boil it down, therein lay the true genius of the web. This applies perfectly to the movie world since all film is subjective and open to our own individual opinions, ideas, interpretations and impression. A world wide forum where fans of the art can come together to exchange ideas and engage in debate over various opinions is like Nirvana to many film fans.
I love engaging in film debate, mostly because of what Movie Blog readers write in the comments. Quite often the best stuff on The Movie Blog isn’t written by the authors, but rather by the users in the comments section who are debating with each other or the author of the post. A good, intelligent and open debate is a very fun and informative thing to be a part of.
But let’s be honest, quite often forums like The Movie Blog and other movie websites have their arenas for the exchange of ideas and debate hijacked by those who just like rant like 6 year olds, hurl insults at the people they’re supposedly engaged in conversation with, add nothing to the conversation itself and in general just like to see what they typed up on the screen. These type of people are a cancer to sites like ours an others and become living black holes to suck the fun and enjoyment out of online movie debate.
Earlier today, I came across a great little post over at a site called “Create Debate Blog” that created a graphic illustrating the seven different levels of debate… ranging from the most idiotic and poor up to the ideal form of debate. The graphic was made with the issue of debate in general in mind, but I think it perfectly applies to the world of film debate on movie websites like The Movie Blog. The chart looks like this:
Let’s start at the bottom:
NAME-CALLING
This is where some people reveal their basic lack of intelligence the most. They’re so devoid of anything intelligent to say that they resort to name calling. “You’re an idiot if you think Star Wars isn’t the best movie ever”. Instantly the environment for an exchange of ideas and debate is killed and replaced with a hostile thread where it’s almost guaranteed nothing intelligent will come out of. Name calling is the fall back position of the weak.
AD HOMINEM
Another great method of the weak is to attack the messenger instead of the message. In other words, making the debate about the person presenting the idea or opinion instead of debating the idea or opinion itself. “How can you not like Juno? Like you would know a good movie from a bad one. You didn’t even like Hot Fuzz”. You see what they did? Now the conversation isn’t even about the topic itself. Their inability to intelligently debate the actual issue drives them to change topics and make the debate about the person instead of about the merits of “Juno”. Also, now instead of an open exchange for everyone to be involved in, the thread becomes a personal argument between two people. Weak weak weak.
RESPONDING TO TONE
We’re starting to get up into the more understandable areas here. “I don’t like the way you said that”! Ok, there is nothing offensive or counter productive really about this type of comment… but it just wastes space. It doesn’t actually address the content of what the person said… and therefore is a waste of space, and a waste of the readers time.
CONTRADICTION
There’s nothing wrong with contradiction. Not every comment has to engage in debate. Sometimes it’s perfectly fine just to express a contrary idea or opinion without debating the merits of another persons idea or opinion. For example, I put up a post about how bad “Jumper” was… another person may just simply comment “I really enjoyed jumper”. Fair enough. Part of the purpose of the comments is just to express opinion. Nothing wrong with that.
COUNTERARGUMENT
This is where stuff starts to get fun. “John, in your post you say Chris Tucker isn’t funny, but if you look at A,B and C I think it’s fair to say that he is indeed funny”. Now we’re contrasting our opinions and and giving reason for our disagreement. It’s still just in the arena of opinion.
REFUTATION
Very useful and informative… but it SUCKS when people properly do it to you (it happens to me all the time). When actual objective, measurable FACTS are able to be used to counter notions proposed by the other party. For example, I remember this one time where on the podcast I made a joke about how Sylvester Stallone would never be on “In The Actors Studio”… only to have a couple of people leave comments with the actual dates and episode number where Stallone had ALREADY been on the show. It’s a little embarrassing when it happens to you, but it’s also a great learning experience.
REFUTING THE CENTRAL POINT
This the the height of great movie debate and where it’s at its most fun. When people start to exchange ideas and opinion while staying on the central idea. When the starting idea is: “Chris Tucker doesn’t deserve $20 million a film” and then people on both sides stick to expressing their thoughts, ideas, opinions.. backed up by some (if applicable) objective data and where the participants keep the exchange respectful of each other… that’s total gold and a lot of fun to be a part of.
I visit a lot of movie websites dozens of times a day, and just about all of them (including mine) face the problems of a few individuals who try to sour things for everyone. But I think if people would shape their comments to the top four levels of that pyramid, comment sections on all film sites would be a much more fun, informative and even entertaining place to participate.
all this talk of cancer, sounds like the rhetoric for communism. I think there are kinds of people who can give and take at the levels deemed unseemly pertaining to the pyramid and who nonetheless can engage in worthwhile debate. I also think there are people who will inevitably be sensitive and I guess moderation is used to accommodate this lowest common denominator (of course at this risk of alienating those who despite their coarseness may have something to say).
I think the leash is a bit too tight. If people cross the line, we are adults, at the very least we should be able to say that offends me… and at that point, by the instigation of someone directly, the comment should be removed. There are many ways to be insightful, and I just do not think ‘serious debate’ is something like unlocking the mysteries of a particular film all the time. We are participants in the film experience, we need to bump up against each other every so often and use all the means of communication we have available. We are not finding a cure for cancer, we are talking, we are engaging in ideas wherever they take us. Efficiency is not all that important on a movie blog, in my humblest of opinions.
but streamline away.
@Slushie Man
No, it wasn’t Bloody Disgusting.
Kristina, that other site wouldn’t happen to be Bloody-Disgusting, would it? Cause I used to go there and left for those exact same reasons.
The only sites I really frequent with posting at these days is this one, Halloween Fanfiction, and Dansjp3page.com, which sure, people attack each other’s opinions all the time, but it’s a close-knit community and pretty much everyone that posts there now have been going there for 10+ years and are all pretty close, so even though we attack each other and each other’s opinions, there’s no real hard feelings cause we’ve all been around each other for over 10 years, which is longer then I’ve had most of the friends I do out in the real world. There are others I go to, just to read the news and such, but I won’t post at or read posts.
I never went to AICN, but I used to be a regular poster on Bloody-Disgusting, until I left for those exact reasons you mentioned above.
I completely agree with you kristina and understand that. I am not saying “you guys talk rude so expect it back nyah nyan nyah-nyah nyah”. all I mean is that I can see why some people might go a little overboard in their abuse from time to time as they might feel due to the irreverent nature of the podcast anything goes. I am not saying it justifies but if you were to listen to some of dougs rants you might get the idea that there are no limits to what you can on this site.
as for aicn well i love it there….thats where I do my trolling. its so easy and so much fun. people get so angry.I talk about films I haven’t even seen and tv shows I don’t watch just to see fans blow their tops..its amazing.
I never used to..I used to enjoy talking about films there but I stopped going for ages and when I returned it had turned into the awful place it is today..don’t get me wrong….quints a good writer….moriarity has his moments but the message boards are fucking insane. a great time can be had there
Actually Alfie, I think you’re onto something. I’ll never forget your numerous Transformers bashing posts that stayed up, despite your disagreement with John as to whether the movie was gonna blow.
As far as the irreverent tone of the podcasts, that’s one thing. We all know Nagy is a comedian, and being irreverent is what pays the bills. However, I think the posting area is another story entirely. People don’t come here to have their opinions attacked. People should feel comfortable coming to this site w/o fear of being ripped a new asshole by trolls. I was a frequent visitor of a certain site(not AICN) that started out as a pretty fun place to be. Gradually however, the fun of the place eroded away as nasty posters began to take over like a disease. It got to the point that I was so uncomfortable posting there that I wrote to the administrator, asking him what he was going to do about it. It wasn’t just me. Numerous people had fled the site due to the administrator’s complete lack of responsibility for what was going on at his site. John is trying to keep this place from turning into a fucking sesspool like AICN and the place I used to visit, and quite frankly, I’m glad he is. Yes, we can be irreverent. God knows I’m not the poster child for political correctness, but even I know when a line has been crossed. Sensible people(and thankfully, this place is packed with them) can be funny w/o being downright malicious. The irreverence of the now-infamous Nagy rants pretty much defuses any inappropriate language or coments coming from his mouth. I might be off, but Nagy calling Dunst a snaggletooth is different from a troll lurking on a site and specifically targeting people over and over simply for having different opinions.
Matt I would 99% of my post are the polar opposite of johns opinion and I am only aware of one time I was deleted when john ahd just had enough of an endless debate we were having. and fair enough. its his site.
And that is what it all comes down to at the end of the day. It’s John’s site and he can do whatever he likes with it. he hosts it, we get to visit so we have to play by his rules. and thats completely fair enough.
but I hardly find that if you go against the staus quo you get attacked or deleted. Hell if that were the case none of my posts nor many others would make it up here.
B-b-b-b-ut as much as I like what john is trying to say here about making debate fun and not descending to AICn types of depravity and childish nonsense I do go back to my old argument that John and Doug set the tone here. and while their posts are generally rather tame in terms of language and insults the podcast leads you to believe this is an anything goes type of place in terms of bad language and abuse. When I sit through a podcast where an actress is called a slut and a snaggle toothed bitch and death is prayed for her character in the next film…or a director is called a scumbag lying asshole it does leave the impression that anything goes. Rape jokes tend to make me think that there are no limits what you can do around a place.
AND BEFORE YOU JUMPO ON ME JOHN I AM NOT ABUSING YOU OR ATTACKING YOU WITH MY ABOVE COMMENT. none of it offends me or troubles me or i wouldn’t listen every week or visit the site..I am not being a prude all I mean is that when certain jokes are made it sets a certain tone and sometimes not all your jokes are exactly high class and above the belt if ya know what I mean
of course now I expect a black box reply from john telling me how I am wrong about this and that I am a trouble making asshat but that is just how I see it.
Good post.
I do enjoy discussing stuff offline with people rather than on, offline and face to face people tend not to do the whole name calling and childish stuff, but online a lot do because it’s easy to say and you’re behind a computer.
That’s why I stopped posting at the Rotten Tomatoes forum, there are good posters on there whose opinions I enjoy and who know a lot more about stuff then me, but there are tons of people who are just up their own asses, narrow minded and if you disagree you often get replies like the AD HOMINEM example above.
Great post John.
Just a comment on the aforementioned topic….sometimes in other boards I’ve noticed is people deliberately make comments in a cleverly disguised fashion just to rile up other posters with the target to reach the bottom of the pyramid. That annoys the hell out of me.
@ Matt Well, all I can tell you is that I’ve posted plenty of comments over the last 3 years here that have disagreed with Doug or John and have never had a single one deleted. Also, over the last three years I can tell you I’ve seen a hell of a lot more comments that disagree with Doug or John than those that agree. So I’m not really sure what you’re reading. Your assertion that “if you don’t support the status quo, you are jumped on”
So I guess if you want to call people correcting you with clear evidence “jumping on you”, then I guess that’s your prerogative.
This is a great site John, keep it up! The reason that I come here is the friendly debates and hearing other people’s perspectives.
I think what some people are failing to understand is that you can have debates and disagreements while still being polite and friendly. We’re here to have fun and share opinions, if you’re not then stop arguing and just leave!
I’ve posted negative comments in the past and thought that maybe I would get flamed. The most that happened was a friendly reminder from some people that that sort of behaviour is not tolerated. I was impressed and now I continue to share my views here and I feel like part of the community.
I have seen comments that were deleted that didn’t have name calling. I won’t even pretend that it will be acknowledged or the truth admitted. It’s your site. The atmosphere around here regarding posts is very “Emperor’s new clothes”ish, in my opinion. As soon as a disagreeing opinion is posted, the acolytes jump in and just blindly defend whatever is posted. Blind loyalty has never lead to increased intelligence.
That is the major drawback of this site. If you don’t support the status quo, you are jumped on. Again this is my opinion regardless of how long it stays up
does this mean me an clive can’t look at your fancy interactive tv program. cause i d’nt know who chris tucker is, hell… 20 million dollar d’nt even exsist. between me an clive we h’ve ten dollar, 1 belt buckle, 3 beercaps an 1 sodapopcap… but that d’nt matter caus yous talk about al kind strange stuff, wich makes my belly jump up an down… like your programme.
owh, your an idote if yall think star wars is the best movie ever.
your friend,
cletus
I guess the biggest thing for me is that as long as it does stay civil everyone’s opinion should be left up and not removed or moderated in anyway.
Personally I’m also very into the freedom of letting the comment threads take a life of their own. I think this leads to much more interesting and also longer discussions than forcing a discussion to stay on topic.
This is just me though and really it comes down to the fact that it is your site and however you choose to do it is fine. If I don’t like how you moderate it I’ll leave. Its really that simple.
Thank you for posting this. Some people here can have an intelligent debate. You all know who you are. Some people can even playfully tease others for their tastes in film. You all know who you are, too. It’s when people go into full-scale troll mode that really annoys me. There’s a reason why I don’t have a message board account with AICN. I don’t want to get into the pit with a bunch of six year olds. I like talking about movies with people, even if their opinions don’t perfectly match mine. I like reading what other people think about a movie because, more often than not, they’ll bring a perspective that I would never have even bothered to think of. For example, a group of friends of mine were having a chat about the whole Fanboys cancer/no cancer debacle. One of my friends has a wife who is currently battling breast cancer. I was for the Fanboys cancer plot, and he wasn’t. I laid down my thoughts about how the cancer drove the plot. He brought a viewpoint to the table that none of us had even thought of. He spoke as a person who has seen the toll that cancer takes up close and all too personal. He said that if the cancer plot doesn’t portray cancer to be the merciless beast that it is, if it makes cancer look like nothing more than a bad cold, like so many other films do, then he’d rather not have the cancer plot there at all. Do it right or don’t do it at all. And guess what? I didn’t throw my water in his face and call him a turd king. I didn’t yell DERR in his face and call him a moron simply because he didn’t agree with me. If not for him, I never would have thought of it that way. It’s debates like that which SHOULD make the Internet go ’round, but unfortunately, I’ve frequently had run-ins with people who type a good game, but wouldn’t be able to back it up in reality. It’s so easy to act like a troll, but it takes something else to come across as an intelligent human being. I really do love this site for being literally the ONLY site that I visit that will actually delete inappropriate and downright trollish posts from the site. I come here to talk, not mudsling. I love coming on here and having a little friendly fire debate from time to time, but come on people. Keep it civil. Do that childish shit on your own time, and leave the grown-up conversations to the rest of us. Thanks.
Yea I love telling People there wrong its fun. lol
“Name calling is the fall back position of the weak.”
Uh… did you just call me weak? Asshat.
lol
Stinker of a post. The funnest part of internet debating is hurling insults at eachother. Someone you can’t do in real life unless you want a fist to your face.
Besides…most comments start off bad, like 6 year olds wrote them, and deserve an equal response. *points at Mike Myers news post*
The only thing I think is a bit tough to “rule” over is the staying on topic….
conversations verr of course naturally. you begin talking about one thing and wind up talking about a hundred different topics. When you have long talks with people you don’t normally stick to the one subject and never stray from it so going off topic is a tricky one to get to uptight about.
and also you might see a connection between one story and another but people have different perspectives and see things differently if ya know what I mean.
People may wonder why I continue to visit this site when I disagree with the topics 99% of the time but its simple.I am in awe of how different John and I see things. I have never come across someone I disagree with more. and i love it. But I am never trolling. Everything I post I truly believe in.
The only thing I can offer here is that the rules on this site for commenting are reasonable. If someone doesn’t like the rules for commenting, why do they stick around a bitch about it? Why not just elsewhere?
But yes, that chart you found is dead on. Where the bottom couple of things are allowed to fester, it ruins a chat board. Where they’re cut out and the top ones are encouraged, those are the boards I like frequenting.
Excellent post again john. you’ve been on a roll lately.
Hey Rusty,
No, your comment that disagreed with me is still up there, the one that got deleted crossed the line an you know it.
As far as being embarrassed by Stein… he was only quoting direct Nazi members who worked at the camps who made the claims… so why should I be embarrassed by him?
Either way, it’s off topic.
@”I’m curious if any of the censored and or edited parties will show up in this thread.”
Well, since I’ve been invited; I’d have to take issue with at least one of John’s claims:
@”People who engage the ideas are NEVER delete”
https://www.themovieblog.com/2008/02/expelled-no-intelligence-allowed-trailer
My wording was certaintly harsh but I was clearly engaging in ideas and debate. Also, I imagine it was probably embarrassing for Gio when Ben Stein came on his podcast and personally stated that Darwin was responsible for the holocaust.
They only constructive comment I can add to this discussion is:
You’re an idiot if you don’t think STAR WARS is the best movie ever.
I notice whenever I post personally insulting rants on here, they get deleted, however, in the same threads there are others doing the same exact thing but nothing is said by John about them. But I’m not mad, it just baffles me in a chuckle-worthy way.
I actually LIKE going to sites like AICN and seeing flame wars and people duking it out with each other, both with personal insults and facts. It’s very interesting and very humorous at the same time.
However, I 100% understand where John is coming from, as far as keeping everything on here civil and trying to keep everyone using their brains instead of their mouths. And I appreciate it, but mud-slinging I also have no problem with.
**NOTICE**
Hey there. For anyone that posted comments in the last 5 or 10 minutes, we had to delete them because they were defaulting with my name and information on them.
Drewbacca notified me of a problem with the comment form, and in attempting to find and test the problem I screwed the form up which resulted in the new problem.
That new problem is now fixed though, sorry for the inconvenience, you may now continue commenting on this post. Thanks.
Ok first off I think everyone is guilty of one or more topic on the pyramid. However, the fact of the matter is that I like TMB because it comments dont ever go too far unless its a joke. I love going to blogs on my fav up-comming movies and posting hersay. But when i get ppl replying me back with some insults or trolling post it makes me not ever want to come back. What Goes on in TMB is only what John deems excetable because 1) its his site, 2) rules are clearly made, 3) he wants comments and opinions that are insiteful. If there is a post I made and i got more douchbags writting on it i want them off because the simple fact is that they are discracting my readers from the topic and the readers will post insults or slander on the douchbags rather than on my topic.
Yeah, maybe. But saying that “stifling comments is a slippery slope” and advocating web anarchy are two different things.
And it is true that by deleting some comments here and there may indeed give a false impression to others the demographic of the readership of said site. I don’t think that’s John intention and I also don’t think it’s a very good argument, but it I see how it could be construed that way.
And I think what Kurt means to say is that what one person might consider offensive or an attack, another person might not. Hence the “slippery slope.”
“Chris Tucker doesn’t deserve $20 million a film”
gah.
bad example.
there cant possible be anyone (except cris tucker) to argue that.
@Drewbacca
Don’t mean to step on Krom’s toes, but to answer your question, Kurt in comment #5 said
“editorial control in an open forum is a bit stifling in the old ’slippery slope’ sort of way.
(I do certainly understand the desire to make the comments more palatable for a reader, I just thing it is ingenuous and reflects a portrait of the web sites readership in a false sort of way”
To me that basically looks like advocating no rules, or at the very least no enforcement of rules. Perhaps that’s not how Kurt intended it to read, but it does read that way.
Hey Krom,
Which commenter suggested that there should be “no rules?”
Hey Doug,
You said:
“Eventually the threads became fun again, the good readers came back and the shit disturbers eventually left which was for the best.”
That’s been the very best result of us having guidelines and rules in our comments section that we stick to. Eventually we had a handful of “shit disturbers” (as you put it) just get fed up and leave, which was best for the site, and probably better for them too
I find it hilarious that some people in here are actually arguing that there shouldn’t be any rules. Go run your own fucking site then, or go to other sites that do it that way. This is the way it is here. I’ve have some comments deleted before, but I don’t fucking cry about it.
Wicked piece. I’m a part time admin for a game site and we try to enforce basically these same principles. About a year ago we nearly lost control of the whole thing because of Trolls and such. We had no rules. Eventually the good readers stopped going into the threads because it was such a fucking mess. When we instituted the rules, some fucking babies cried about free speech and other bullshit, but it worked. Eventually the threads became fun again, the good readers came back and the shit disturbers eventually left which was for the best.
@Kurt – I know you’ve been around tmb a long time because so have I. But this idea that John or Doug or Rodney or whoever has written on here doesn’t allow disagreeing comments is just flat out a deceptive thing to say. Every post is littered by people who disagree with whatever the author says all the time, some of those comments have been my own. Alfie is a legend!
Sorry, but I’ve seen so much allowed on here, that if an admin deletes something, I’ll take their word for it that it was something that deserved deleting.
(I should mention that you are using my raising of this debate to make a criticism of me (and my ax as you put it.) — right back at ya!
Fair Enough John. I will stop pestering you. I think it is a reasonable discussion to have. It appears you have stopped listening…but I’m fine with that, I’ve said my peace.
Anyone who reads that pyramid is probably sufficiently aware of the fact. Unfortunately, in my experience with people the ones who desperately need to look at this pyramid never will. :)
Hey Kurt,
Once again, you’re just using this post to grind your ax that you’ve brought up and tried to argue with me before, and now just trying to use this post as a soap box. You’re making the post about me, not actually talking about the central idea, and just repeating the same thing you’ve said to me 100 times in the past, just to get attention.
I’m done debating this with you only because you’re saying nothing new, and I have nothing new to say that I haven’t already told you before.
All I can say is that as a reader of a lot of movie sites, I think reading this article should be a prerequisite for anyone posting on any board. If people actually did stick to the top four rungs on that ladder, it would be a lot more enjoyable and informative.
I have experience first-hand comments being deleted which were certainly not off topic, but (of course in my opinion) were strongly contradicting certain views or manners within this site. I know of several folks also who have been baffled by comments that were deleted (can I reproduce these? Nope, because, hey, they were annihilated).
I’m not speaking hypothetical here, I’ve read the rules for commenting, as have certain other parties. That is why I bring it up here.
I understand that The Movie Blog is your ship John, run it as you please. You brought up the topic of debate on the internet and in particular in the comments section. Perhaps you do not see how you run the movie blog is interpreted sometimes (he it’s a smorgasboard of viewpoints and cultural differences out there) . I just wanted to give my $0.02
I’m curious if any of the censored and or edited parties will show up in this thread.
Hey Kurt,
No, it’s pretty clear if one person starts calling another person names. it’s pretty clear if one person starts attacking the messenger instead of the message. When that happens, comments get deleted. Pretty simple.
My basic rule is that if it wouldn’t be said between friends sitting around chatting then it probably is something that you might want to consider moderating.
Can you imagine friends sitting around discussing a movie and the first thing one of them says is “first opinion”.
The same goes for attacks against other commenters. I’d have no problem with a friend say hey your an @sshole in a joking manner and I’d let it go in the comments but none of my friends would start making racist, sexist or other nasty comments while casually chatting so the same goes for me on the websites. Of course you have to be careful with this since it can get out of hand but thats when you as the moderator step in and say that things are getting out of hand.
Thats the problem with AICN and IMDB there just isn’t anyone stepping in enough.
Bravo gio. I’m 100% with you on this. It’s crazy how even sites like CNN have their boards taken hostage by a few trolls sometime. I appreciate the fact that you have the commenting rules and I’m flabbergasted how anyone can disagree with them. Seriously. If they want a “fuck you” free for all, start your own site where nothing intelligent ever gets communicated.
Well, that’s a shame. A clear, easy to understand set of common sense guidelines is something you don’t accept. Fair enough.
Well, John. That’s reductive. In my experience there is nothing clear about these sorts of things, perhaps in your mind, but what about a comment that has one somewhat offensive thing (to the editors point of view of course) and yet also contains an insightful point.
Does the editor edit the comment down to just the cogent point, or throw the entire comment away. Is that outlined in the rules section? I’m sure you appreciate that in dealing with people and communication, nothing is simple.
Hey Drebacca,
I think you’re right about the “off topic” stuff. If a conversation related to the topic sometimes spinns off, you’ll see we often just let it go.
To be honest, it really doesn’t happen very often at all (people getting way off topic) so it’s not something that has to be addressed too much.
Follow up: the bottom half of the Triangle is indeed a cancer to many sites. It is one of the factors that contributed to the shutting down of oone of my old haunts, The Projector Booth. (RIP)
Hey Kurt,
You said:
“I don’t accept the response of ‘it’s all right there in the commenting rules’) however.”
Well, that’s a shame. A clear, easy to understand set of common sense guidelines is something you don’t accept. Fair enough.
No opinion that is actually on the topic of the thread and doesn’t debase into personal insults against the commentors or the author is ever deleted. Ever.
The comments is for an exchange of ideas and opinions. Not an exchange of 6 year old behavior, insults and flaming.
Again, if people don’t like that, they are free to comment elsewhere.
Great post, John. Except for one thing….
https://www.themovieblog.com/2006/11/sylvester-stallone-to-quit-acting
It wasn’t a podcast. It was a post.
In the podcast, you merely mentioned that two sharp fact checkers did thier civic duty for that day.
One of two,
da Seeler
I find that quite often, movie sites (that take themselves semi-seriously) do a good job of policing themselves. If someone makes a stupid comment, they usually appear as such and are either ignored or beaten back by the “good” people of the site. Rarely do I see a full fledged flame war (though I NEVER go to AICN, so I don’t know about that particular site).
As far as the rules for commenting on TMB go, I might disagree with some decisions, but generally I think they’re fair and a web master can do what he wants with his/her own site.
Personally, I do think that the “posting off topic” rule is kind of harsh. I mean, sometimes a person wants to bring up a topic they can’t find a post about, so they just plug it in where they can find a spot. I personally have no problem with that at all. If the conversation skews off the track a bit, so what? As long as it’s movie related, it’s all good in my book. In fact, I love the discussions that start out with maybe a story about a studio buying a script and then it turns into a full on debate about the merits or stupidity of the aliens in “Signs” – now THAT’S good reading and fun conversation.
Again, just me though.
I keep bringing this up, because all of this is filtered through editorial control, and is pretty blurry on what some posts meet that criteria, and others do not.
I hesitate to use the phrase ‘whitewashing’ but certainly everyone sees what they post differently, and singular editorial control in an open forum is a bit stifling in the old ‘slippery slope’ sort of way.
(I do certainly understand the desire to make the comments more palatable for a reader, I just thing it is ingenuous and reflects a portrait of the web sites readership in a false sort of way.)
Of course, SPAM, kiddie porn, death threats and other forms of gross intimidation should be removed or at least dealt with. But it’s the fuzzier area that I have found The Movie Blog often deals in censoring comments which I’ve witnessed in the past.
I’m not trying to knock the site here (I’m a regular visitor and commenter, I’ve participated in TMB events and whatnot as well), merely trying to get at the whole ‘open forum’ concept , I don’t accept the response of ‘it’s all right there in the commenting rules’) however.
Amen Sara.
I’ll tell you John, the worst people i find on the internet are the ones who leave comments on message boards and youtube saying that my mother will die in seven days if i don’t re-post their non-sensical story/poem/babbling nonsense ten times. It’s just inconceivable to me, the mind set you have to be in to do that sort of thing…
…But that’s what happens when you have the biggest open forum in the world and especially one which allows unpleasant, agressive people to say what they like to others without having to face any consequences for it. As long as the internet exists, that is always going to be consistent, sadly.
I do find it rare these days though. AICN & the IMDB boards are the only real unpleasant places to try and start a conversation about movies, and given the layout of their forums, it’s not the kind of place you’d want to have a thorough discussion anyway. I’m fine in my little corner here.
What’s brought this post on John? Nobody’s upset you today have they? I won’t have it:)
Hey Kurt,
Well, since you and I have had this discussion a few times already and you’re clearly just brining it up yet again, I’ll give you the same answer.
Read the commenting rules. It’s simple. I want an environment in the comments section of my sight where people can express their opinions without having to worry about trolls and flamers launching personal attacks on them.
People who engage the ideas are NEVER delete. Those who troll, post way off topic, engage in name calling or attack the messenger instead of the message are subject to being deleted… just like you cut cancer out.
It’s laid out in the rules. It’s very clear. If people don’t like it, they don’t have to comment.
In the spirit of open debate, where does censoring and removing comment fit into the argument, and when is it a good time to ‘vaccuum’ your own comment section?
Great post John. One of the reasons I keep coming back her is that most of the users are intelligent and don’t act like children in there, and when they do you seem to clean it up pretty fast. That’s the main reason I stopped going to some other sites because I couldn’t stand the discussion threads anymore.