The first reviews of the movie Munich are coming out, and they appear to be saying great things. We caught one over at our friends Twitch and it’s a very deep and insightful one.
This is a very violent film with a high body count. The killings are graphic and often brutal, sometimes even demeaning. Perhaps most surprising element in all of this is the blatant commentary Spielberg makes late in the film, linking the primal act of murder with sexual climax while at the same time keeping it personally relevant for the characters in question…Whether you agree with the underlying point of the film or not, you will still be struck nonetheless by some its many other observed truths and observations made along the way.
It’s worth a read if you’re interested in this movie. You know we’ll have a review out as soon as we see it too.
Over at Yahoo movies through Movies Online they also have four clips of the film itself for you to gaze over.
I’m excited about seeing this movie, I think it promises a lot and is sounding like it’s actually going to deliver.
yes, cheers indeed. glad to see you talk like a grownup, unlike you-know-who who can only speak in angry platitudes.
Well said, actually. i totally agree with you. I’ve been in so many churches where people are so bull headed and charge right in to topics where they don’t know crap. The Bible itself says, “Don’t point fingers at the splinters in others eyes when you yourself have a log in yours”. it’s the actions that count, not the words, and I have a lot of people to talk to on how to witness, but they probably will ban me from their churches. A lot of people who say they are Christians are going to hell, but all I can do is pray. Thanks for the chat, and have a happy new year!
well for your last question Brian, even though I dont believe Christianity to be correct, i do believe if people really followed Jesus they’d be a better force in the world, an army of good people that help others. as it stands now, I think they’ve failed, and in cases like homosexuality, are way too concerned about what other people are doing instead of making their own lives better.
whether its war/crusades, censorship, discriminatory laws based on religion (the private ‘bedroom’ laws, you know, the things that arent hurting anyone else but someone need to be legislated), their nose is basically in everyone elses business. i mean, 50% of all marriages end in divorce, but its gay marriage they’re concerned about. if they’re so concerned about the sanctity of marriage, why dont they pass a constitutional amendment banning divorce? like i said near the beginning of this thread, some liberals are no better -the political spectrum is like a horseshoe, get too far to either side and you have the people not expressing, but enforcing subjective beliefs on other people…. i could go on and on about this in detail but i won’t.
i believe its because they fear what they dont understand. i know a lot of gay people. trust me, they did NOT choose to be gay. no, gay people arent going to procreate, but so what? 10-15% of the population are gay, and while some people are confused and yes ‘faking it’ to try and find out who they are (for for money), the vast majority science has clearly shown are just plain gay. you think a teenager from Iowa wants to be gay? “Gee, hmm… how can I bring trouble into my life just by the way I speak?”
the genes are being figured out and even in the last 5 years its basically been conclusive, with only religious groups putting out their own bizarre studies to fight homosexuality, creating ‘heterosexual conversion’ camps, coming up with the most bizarre and just plain lying, statistics to try and convince the flock that the big Pink Menace is out to get them and their children.
I have a cousin with maybe the most religious father in the world, and he is also religious. he suppressed it forever, but he finally came out recently. he doesnt date other guys because he thinks if he doesnt actually practise homosexuality with other men he won’t be in trouble with God (or worse, his dad, who we all know would completely disown him in a second)… there is a gay couple I know who have had a longer relationship than any other couple I’ve known, but until recently they couldnt get married, yet Britney Spears can do it for a laugh in Las Vegas and get divorced teh next day…
I mean, there are several other species where percentages of the animals pair off with members of the same sex… i think people are so used to the idea of ‘men sperm. women babies’ that they realize that just because something is in the majority doesnt make one thing ‘natural’ and the other thing a freakshow. thats the absolutists chiming in again, where everything can only be one thing or the other… these weird traditions based on illogical presets is pretty much the same attitude that kept black people/women, etc. from having any rights…
If i were you I wouldnt label myself anything. its the self-labeling of conservative, liberal, Christian, etc that to me pushes people into certain flocks where they adopt beliefs, traditions and rituals that they may not have otherwise fallen into. doesnt it drive you mad how one sect of christianity can perhaps be so inspired by their faith, but they dont do the ‘born again’ stuff so X percentage of other Christians say they’re going to hell…
You know, goon, i totally agree with you. Mainstream christianity is a cult. It saddens me to see churches at each others throats, threats being tossed and blame being thrown around. yeah, I do have things set in my mind because of my background, but critical thinking is defined as disregarding all bias and personal beliefs to examine closely something for its validity. When i do this, it’s makes a hell of a lot more since to bieleve that homosexuality is wrong due to the scientific evidence that that is NOT how the human body was meant to function. Biblical laws aside, science points to homosexuality as unnatural. You seem to think that people created religion, that stupid savages needed something to do and made religion and said ‘garsh, we sure is smart to figure out all this. we got it all figerred out!’ You have pointed to all organized religion as probably being wrong. That’s true. But i’m not part of any organized religion. Maybe i should stop calling myself a Christian and make up a new name considering the stereotyping you’ve done. That Christianity you speak of, all the organized hypocrits. That’s not me. Just call me Brian the Follower of Jesus, or The new Christian. Whatever. You say that I’ve put up a straw person, while you have put up a huge stereotype that all Christians are in an organized religion. I could sit down in my living room and read a few chapters and sing a couple songs and that would be my church meeting. To put it simply, you don’t know who I am or how i live, so don’t put me in a category. I don’t blame you for not believing me. You are completely right when you point your finger at organized religion. But you seem to look a lot at the bad of Christianity, what it does wrong. If your not even sure if God exists, why are you so upset at Christianity?
Barnyrubble, if you want to post on this site, go ahead. Just realize that your not the operator of this site, and you don’t have the right to dictate anything.
No bias here, you can all post, and you are. You did have one post refused because of all the external links enclosed, and without looking at them I’m not sure I should allow them. Just looking at some of the titles I’m unsure of their relevance to the topic in hand. Mind you, the discussion is well off topic for the post itself!
“as for Bush…he’s the leader of the free world” He doesn’t rule the UK, or any of Europe as far as I knew, nor Asia or Australasia.
Wasn’t Reagan the one who managed to get Russia to sign all those arm reduction treaties? I thought that was a good thing.
“America and Israel ARE GOOD” that would be the same America that continually refused to agree to UN resolutions to stop the genocide in Rwanada, and infact voted against moves by other UN members to assist and managed to prolong the genocide for hundreds of thousands of more lives? Yeah. Good.
“i hope people who’ve read this this will see how religious fundamentalism can breed such hatred” – Well said. Hatred is not something that is preached as part of many of the more popular organised religions of this world.
Am I allowed to post yet? Seems like Goon gets to post all he wants.
NO BIAS HERE ON THIS WEBSITE!!
i grew up in the church. i know what i’m talking about. and everytime i bring up what i dont like about organized religion they all say some variation of what you said: “well they’re not real christians then”… this from anglicans, baptists, catholics, all of you who are supposed to be on the same team but really… you dont get along. for example, my baptist grandfather and my wesleyan grandfather yell at each about who has the true religion. they both agree that catholicism is evil and that anglicanism isnt much better. a neighbor is currently disallowing his son to marry a pentecostal, even though she doesnt even go in for their specific rituals. it doesnt matter to him.
if each set of people i know whittle down the number of ‘true christians’ from everyone else who ‘gets it wrong’, well Brian thats a very very small amount of people goign to heaven now aint there? quite a few people going to hell…
i’m glad you say you try to think about life and love, but most of you have some things just set in your head about, say, gay people, dinosaurs, evolution, etc, in spite of all scientific evidence. basically, i dont think christianity is either necessary, nor really all that relevant anymore. some of you act like society would crumble, that christianity is the only thing that defines right and wrong, well… sorry. just about all christians are just as messed up as the rest of us. and I find your religions, almost all religions, as a roadblock to human progress.
and look at your own post there. look at how many times you put words in my mouth, you claiming I think God is evil. damn you christians and your strawman arguments. how can i think that when I dont even know if he exists? what i said is i dont know if he’s there or ever was, or if he actually cares, or if something like heaven is just for people or includes dogs. how do i know there isnt really dozens of gods… and the bottom line is neither do you for sure. the only reason everyone thinks they will burn for all eternity in a pit of fire is because christians basically told everyone that as a tool of control. hellfire brimstone… hell has pretty much only been defined as ‘abscence of God’, and every sect of Christianity, EVERY ONE, has skipped past that to control the flock… with fear. so many christians keep going to church even though they dont get anything from it or follow the basic tenets becasue of that fear. they stay with a religion ‘just incase’.
and i reiterate. to me, the Cross is a morbid symbol, Christianity is so obsessed with blood and death in the rituals… like a cult! the rituals, the groups singing the droning hymns that all have the same melody, the call and response talking with the preacher, eating the body and the blood… cult. now some of you stick with the Jesus fish instead. whats wrong with that? its a symbol of jesus miracles and how he lived. the cross is a symbol of how he died – once again showing conclusively Christians think more of Jesus’ death than his life, that its all about the fear of the great beyond, a reminder that they’re going to get the great reward if they stick with the program. culty culty cult. control control control.
that doesnt mean you’re not a nice person or anything, I’m just saying organized religion, all of it – is probably wrong. the vastness of the universe, the short time we’ve been on this planet, to think it was all figured out 2000 years ago when people were even stupider than they are now. sorry, you aint selling me.
almost every christian i know grew up in a christian household, did you? they grow up into this, its all they know, its a taboo to NOT stay with it because its important to honor the parents, they’ve never truly explored other paths, and I’m sorry, I dont believe you when you talk about your study… when you look at any religion objectively from the outside – their creation story, the prophets, the miracles, the coming cleansing reign. its all ridiculous. this is why america sits and laughs at Muslims and Hindus and Shintoists and other cultures wacky customs. they just didnt grow up in it.
and how would most christians take everything I just said:
“the devil’s big lie is convincing the world he doesnt exist”
“the devil can quote scripture for his own purpose”
cult. control.
Listen, Goon, I hate to jump in, but do you have any idea what Christianity is? You think it’s a religion. it’s just some backwards warped little philosophy that has absolutlely no truth in it. That its used to control people, and your whole idea of God is this evil bastard who wants to stick you in a pit of fire if you don’t worship him. In essence, you think God is evil, so you don’t believe in him. The thing is, we don’t have it all figured out! That’s why we got a saviour. Thousands of years ago, the exact same thing happened. There was a big long spell of no religious activity. The priests were perverted and twisted the appearance of the religion and used it to control people for personal gain. Then Jesus came along and slapped them in the faces and showed everyone what they were doing wrong. Then the idiots killed him for it. He sacrificed himself for us. If jesus were here, he would NOT get upset at all the crosses. It’s the Christian symbol. it’s a rememberance tool. Like when a sports icon gets his number retired. You have fallen for the fake christians. You have seen all the bullshit that goes on with people who say they are Christians but really can’t tell you why. The mainstream christianity. The idea that if you believe in god or do good things you go to heaven. That’s not Christianity! You have stereotyped us big time. Christianity is not just a choice. ‘Oh, yeah, i made a choice to accept god, now i go to heaven.’ No way! Christianity is a relationship at a personal level. You, one on one with jesus. learning and growing in him. yes, Jesus’s life was important. He lived to show us the right way to live, but his DEATH is so far beyond what we could comprehend. We can’t understand the magnitude of that sacrifice it’s so important! No, we shouldn’t ponder upon death and love violence. We are to love one another. That is what the Bible is- a love letter from god to us. Any bad things that happened is becuase WE, the human race, have screwed it up. The whole reason there is so much turmoil and trouble in this world is becuase we threw away a gift. God wanted someone to love, but he wanted someone to love him back ON THEIR OWN WILL. He gave us free will, and we rejected God. That’s human nature for ya. Yes, i think critically all the time. i ponder the questions of life and love and happyness. i’ve studied other religions and seen what they have to offer. There is a prize for us when we die, and the life we live here on earth is so short. Sure there are lots of people who witness the wrong way, and there are lots of people who are using “christianity” as a way to make money. There are ignoramuses out their who believe that everyone who isn’t a christian should die. there are so many people who claim to be christians and are totally messed up and are on the wrong path. Maybe you should stop listening to everyone else and explore this for yourself. See what jesus himself said. Everything God does is to fix the problems we have caused. If we hadn’t rejected him, there would have been no jesus. But there was. it was easier before Adam screwed it up for us, but the Bible shows us how to get to the place we need to be in. I think critically, but sometimes logic doesn’t give us what we need in life-hope, belief, and love. i may not know much politically, but i do know my god.
hey barnyrubble, if you think these people should be killed, why dont you go over there and kill them then. you sit here and just let the blood be on someone elses hands, make the deaths something they have to live with, put them at risk of having to face God one day to explain their actions if he exists…
you talk about how you conservatives are supposedly so brave and fight for whats right, well put up or shut up. go over there and kill some Arabs if thats the way you think. its so easy for you to wish death on people from your comfortable little home. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Limbaugh, O’Reilly, the whole lot of them – they never fought in a war, but have the audicity to call Murtha, Kerry, Cleland, etc, unpatriotic. you’re a complete chickenhawk.
i hope people who’ve read this this will see how religious fundamentalism can breed such hatred… this attitude you and so many christians these days have about teh world has turned so many people away from spiritual belief. If there is a God, barny, you’re going to find that he’s going to be very displeased with you when you meet him. you’re no ambassador for Christ, I’ll tell you that. You’re one of the worst examples of a Christian I’ve ever come across.
one more thing
“the biggest lie of the devil is to convince you he doesnt exist”
thats one of my favorite christian quotes. its basically the “satan put dinosaur bones there to trick you” defense, the all-purpose response, the mantra for whenever the logical reasoning of an unbeliever kicks you square in the face.
the reason that quote exists…. is as a cult tactic… too pull back the sheep who stray from the flock, to keep them from using their brain.
a sheep in troll’s clothing.. thanks for playing.
heres your modern conservative strategy:
make the people afraid, and then tell them who to blame. tell them to hate.
i believe in right and wrong, that good and evil exist. but to ignore whats in between is to ignore the entire spectrum of human emotions, to deny critical thinking. your entire rant was nothing but a strawman argument.
“your’e with us or against us” – thats the modern conservative, thats you – and I reject you outright. you’re the very ones responsible for the cycle of violence, and with your thinking there will never be peace anywhere.
“The people who attack the movie based on ‘moral equivalence’ are some of the same people who say diplomacy itself is an exercise in moral equivalence, and that war is the only answer. That the only way to fight terrorism is to dehumanize the terrorists by asking no questions about who they are and where they come from.”
And here we have it! The great liberal lie of our time. That there is no good and evil. That those are subjective terms at best and determined by a person’s upbringing. That the only true “Good” is peace brought about by “Objective and Open Minded” liberals and the only true “Evil” is conflict brought about by “Rigid, backwards thnking conservatives”. That those who have the audacity to call Evil for what it is are, in fact, the source of all conflict in the world, and therefore the source of all Evil.
Goon. The first lie of the Devil is to convince you he doesn’t exist.
I will continue to call Evil by it’s name. I thank God for the privilige to do so, and I thank God for all those fine, brave Americans who came before me who had the common sense to do likewise. We never would have gained independence, would never have freed the slaves, and Hitler would be running half the Globe were it left up to the likes jellyfish liberals such as yourself.
And yes, Stupid, Islamic Fascists ARE EVIL.
And no, Stupid, America and Israel ARE GOOD.
And no, Stupid, there is no way to deal with Evil Islamic Fascists other than TO KILL THEM.
I know that’s a little tough to accept in your dizzy-headed, oh-so-complex-and-confusing, shades-of-grey world.
But sometimes an apple is a f*cking apple, Jack.
Ebert interviewed Spielberg, and he had this to say:
“The people who attack the movie based on ‘moral equivalence’ are some of the same people who say diplomacy itself is an exercise in moral equivalence, and that war is the only answer. That the only way to fight terrorism is to dehumanize the terrorists by asking no questions about who they are and where they come from.”
“What I believe is, every act of terrorism requires a strong response, but we must also pay attention to the causes. That’s why we have brains and the power to think passionately. Understanding does not require approval. Understanding is not the same as inaction. Understanding is a very muscular act. If I’m endorsing understanding and being attacked for that, then I am almost flattered.”
i still say the movie is boring, but this makes me think maybe barny, you should shut up and actually see the movie before you continue parroting other sources trashing the film. by continuing to rant and rave you’re basically admitting to the entire world you’re wilfully ignorant.
I’m off to Boxing Day sales for the day. yay me.
by the way, i’m loving how you’re inferring through your ‘we’re taking over!’ rants that everyone who votes republican is a christian. and through your passion rants, basically inferring all christians are republicans.
this is pretty much the fatal turn in your arguments. a whole lot of liberals saw the Passion, buddy. most people I know did. As much as you want to put up some culture war where the Democrats stand for Islam or some crap, most of the Democrats are openly Christian too. In fact, I’m not sure which party has more Catholics…
the Passion is no indication of a political movement. all the Passion’s success says is that there are a lot of Christians in the country. I dont remember a poll after the movie asking which way someone voted, do you? Critics like Roger Ebert are very liberal, and yet he for example, still gave it a glowing review. I dont remember him endorsing Bush last year, do you?
likewise, not everyone who saw Fahrenheit 9/11 was a hardcore liberal. many went to get themselves mad, many were moderates who wanted to see what the hype was about. this is what happens when the media picks out a film and puts it in the news every day…
likewise, Munich is a film I dont think would do well at the box office. now that people like you are making a big deal out of it, it just might be. way to go.
well its clear now, you cant come up with an example of a new conservative based story that would make cash…
also, go to boxofficemojo.com and look at movies based on adjusted inflation. its the only way to accurately check what a higher percentage of people went to see. (this is why when people talk about the most successful movies of all time, they say its Gone With the Wind).
the big religious film of the 50s – the Ten Commandments, is in the top 5 of all time. the big religious film of our generation, the Passion, doesnt crack the top 50. some cultural movement. heh.
a higher percentage of the public went to see Animal House. Harry Potter’s not far behind the Passion, do I get to pretend that there’s a witchcraft movement taking over America?
Hehe… Goon I also suppose it was lost on you that a lot of Conservatives and Church groups also “Rallied Around” The Chronicles of Narnia…
Oh but wait I forgot! They’re conservative and believe in God. Their opinions and movie dollars don’t count! They aren’t real people and shouldn’t be considered as a potential customer base for the movie industry.
My bad!
Hehehe…
And it doesn’t take a Wizard to see that Liberals have lost control of the entire federal government, and a majority of state ones. You can spin the numbers all you want Goon – it doesn’t change how they actually add up. I hope you’re enjoying your state of denial.
And your request for another example of a movie that Rivals the Passion is rediculous. It’s the same logic you liberals used to “Explain Away” Reagan. “Oh sure he won by a landslide, but he’s just a a fluke. He’s an exeception to the rule!”.
25 years later conservatives have handed liberals their ass in small brown sacks all over the country. They even have a name for it. They call it the “Reagan Revolution”.
Same thing with the Passion brother. It’s the big elephant in the room none of you Liberals want to talk about. It’s the giant Iceberg that you don’t see coming. You may want to kill the messenger, but it doesn’t change the message and the reality of the situation the liberals in hollywoood face.
And no this topic to this conversation hasn’t gone “Lots of places” – you wish it would but it hasn’t. You are still in denial about the fact that a large number of movies coming out of hollywood are heavily laden with liberal philosophical and political ideology – and that the majority of Americans don’t appreciate it. You’re still brainwashed into thinking that you aren’t even “Liberal” – that you’re “Objective”, “Open Minded”, “Non-Judgemental”, or some other some-such-bullsh*t.
There is right and wrong in this world – and it doesn’t take a genius to spot it. As desperately as you’d like to think this world “Cold, Fierce, Complex, and “Riddled with Shades of Grey” – the TRUTH is it’s not nearly so much as you think it is. Most people know this instinctively, I’m sorry you’re not one of them. If you, and your liberal friends in Hollywoood were they’d probably be making a LOT more money at the box office.
i know i went off topic a lot of places, but its interesting that I was polite enough to address your arguments, yet you couldnt even come forward and give me a good example of a conservative movie that could make Passion sized money like I challenged…
troll.
if in every election for every seat, 51 percent of republicans won vs. 49 percent, Republicans would run 100% of the country. in other words, judging the will of the people numerically by that method is fundamentally flawed. look at the overall populations of California/new york/illinois, etc. liberals are more concentrated in the metropolitan areas, and their population adds up to about at least when you tally up the total votes in a presidential election, approximately the same amount as republicans…
it doesnt take a wizard to figure that out.
as for Bush, he’s a target because a) he’s the leader of the free world. duh, and b) he’s the politician with the most blindly partisan support any of us have ever seen. he could eat a baby and Ann Coulter would find a way to excuse him for it.
enjoy the rest of your Christmas. I’m sure Jesus will love how you spent his special day on the internet bringing such goodwill to your fellow man :P
Merry Christmas Goon.
Oh wait – sorry for being a White Imperialist Oppressor!
Happy Holidays!
No wait even that’s too much.
The World Sucks!!
There I’m sure you can relate to that. :-D
…and in case you haven’t noticed Goon it’s not all about “Bush” (Christ you Libs are so focused on him I think you secretly have sexual fantasies about him).
In case you haven’t checked lately Conservatives control the majority of the Federal Government and the majority of State Governerships and Legislatures. That’s a pretty safe bet for “More than half the country” Gandalf.
But of course your a dizzy-headed lib. According to you it’s probably because of bad ballot boxes, intimidating policemen, or the idea that most people are too stupid to know what’s good for them.
Have fun living in your dark little world. Forgive me if I don’t join you. :P
ha ha ha…
you’re such a troll…
come back when you learn to think critically, or actually see the movie you’re trashing.
Lol! Nice. Goon go change your pants, you just peed yourself.
‘more than half the country’
this is what i dont get. bush doesnt win the popular vote in 2000, just barely squeaks by in 2004, and you act like you’ve got a mandate. 40-50% of the public didnt vote.
so basically you have 25% of the country as Republicans, less now that Bush and the Republican party’s numbers are low, and 50% as a big question mark or completely dont care either way/dont feel represented by the two major parties/consider them both teh same and that it doesnt matter who they vote for…. when a certain percentage of them are so religious they think Spongebob and Tinky Winky are gay, its a pretty safe bet they wont be seeing a lot of the movies you think could actually do well with conservatives, they’d have to be really really watered down.
I’m telling you, Conservatives arent teh market you think they are, and I basically demand you give me an example of a conservative message movie that could bring in Passion sized numbers.
‘wash your hadns with the blood of the innocent, moral cop out’
like the Bushes, Reagan, Clinton never shed any blood. all your absolutist view is a cop-out from actually using your brain to understand a fierce, complex world. you pick a side and do everything you can to convince yourself your side is dead right and the other is dead wrong and theres never any overlap or shade of grey, ever.
America has so many of its own problems that its citizens want addressed. many conservatives, even Novak and Carlson who didnt support the Iraq war, want their military saved for a sovereign nations’ affairs. the US has stretched its military so thin that if a truly great threat that needed to be addressed came along, they’re scrwed. is a smart strategy moral relativism to you then too? Bush couldnt even take care of people trapped in standing water at home. is people saying “enough meddling in other countries, how bout we protect ourselves at home” moral relativism? is pointing out that the money spent on Iraq could have done wonders in fighting AIDS in Africa, somethign thats much more of a threat, moral relativism? is pointing out that Sudan is being ignored moral relativism? you cant answer these questions because you don’t care.
there are so many places that are screwed up. questioning why Bush is in Iraq and not somewhere else, asking why civil rights must be forfeited to ironically, protect liberty, asking why he said the case for war was about WMDs when its now about ‘liberation’ all of a sudden, asking if war really was a last resort when adminstration members say that they fixed the intelligence and planned a war all along. asking questions, using your brain, instead of accepting the word of politicians at face value… this is a problem to you? this isnt washing blood off hands. its called PROBLEM SOLVING, which the Republicans have proven to be absolute failures at. they dont listen to any plan that doesnt sound good politically, they ignore generals like Shinseke who were right abotu how many troops were needed, they support criminals like Chalabi and believe him when he says its going to be a cakewalk and that they’ll be greeting with flowers.
it seems you hate liberals more than you love common sense. absolutists like you think theres two choices: remove Saddam through physical force, or don’t. support Israel, or support Palestine. God help you if you ever had an exam with ‘none of the above’ or ‘all of the above’ as a possible answer.
re: the Passion. of course I see Conservatives as a potential customer base. otherwise Larry the Cable Guy (i guess you probably approve of him calling people ‘ragheads’, huh?) wouldnt be famous, and I wouldnt know the name of certain NASCAR drivers. regardless, that movie’s brutal violence was accepted by the right wing because it was jesus and therefore important for the whole family to see, to know how he suffered for them. some people hoped it would convert others, others just wanted to see the movie.
that said, how many other viable ‘conservative movies’ do you see out there that could be hits like the Passion? give me an example of what a good conservative movie would be. And I’m looking for examples that would pass teh capalert test. we all know very well many conservatives love blood, gore, violence, and sex as much as many liberals do, as much as some might not want to admit it.
I’m spastic? look in the mirror, you sloppy bitch.
anyways, your big problem apparently is that Munich supposedly puts the Israel and the PLO on equal ground. its clear you have a pre-set idea about this and are just parroting other writers who have bashed the film. you make it real clear, “Israel good, PLO evil”. the very reason i dont research the Israel/PLO stuff or discuss it openly is becasue of *ssholes like you, who are so harsh to one side you bring out the simple ‘moral relativism’ claims and later might even call someone an anti-s emite if i were to say, bring up something like the Rachel Corrie incident as something that bothered me.
you’re not going to get me to talk in depth about that stuff. you’re too rabid. its obvious you havent seen “Munich”, so shut the f*ck up until you do. i was going to give you some details about how the film does portray each side in certain scenes, but its not worth it. you’re just a troll looking to swiftboat a movie you havent seen before the general public can see it for yourself. it is your intent to assassinate it before the public makes up its own mind.
Hehehe… and I especially loved the way Goon up there “Explained Away” The Passion’s success by saying “it was the jesus movie and it was rallied around by churches everywhere. ”
I want anyone with a single ounce of grey matter who has to make a living making movies remember what this asshat just said. BURN it into your brain for the rest of your career.
This idiot liberal is so brainwashed HE DOESN’T EVEN SEE CONSERVATIVES AS A POTENTIAL CUSTOMER BASE.
More than half the country!
Good Luck! :-D
Lol! You libs have the tightest assholes on the face of the planet. Lookit you getting all frantic and pissed off. It’s too funny. You’re getting all spastic because you know what I’m saying is true.
You’re brainwashed. You’re so stuck on the idea that these films you defend aren’t political and therefore aren’t open to political interpretation and critisism.
Go back to the Doofus who said “I don’t think the movie took sides”.
THAT IS THE PROBLEM.
You seem to be under the warped notion that unless a film argues FOR the Islamic Fascits it can’t be criticized. WRONG. When a film makes the Israelis out to the the MORAL EQUIVALENT of Islamic Fascists it’s making a bald-faced political statement and is WIDE OPEN to political criticism.
You think that if a film (or any other piece of entertainment and news media) is devoid of any personal analysis and personal judgements it’s politically neutral and above reproach. That it’s somehow intellectually and morally sacred and you can’t question the motives of the people who produced it. Those people are “Neutral” and have no axe to grind with anyone.
Let me ask you a really fucking stupid question.
What the F*CK do you think the Jews who were slaughtered in the Holocaust would have to say about the Swiss in WWII? What the FUCK do you think the Muslims who were slaughtered by the hundreds of thousands by Saddam Hussein and the Taliban would have to say about the LIBERALS IN THIS AMERICA.
I’ll let you figure that one out yourself Flash.
Liberal objectivity is an intellectual illusion and a moral cop-out. You wash your hands of the blood of innocents as did Pontius Pilate. When we get movie after movie coming out of Hollywood that takes this same bullshit philosophical approach to the moral messages to the stories they tell I’m well in my rights to call it for what it is.
re: the Passion
name one other ‘right wing’ movie that was a Passion sized success. it was the jesus movie and it was rallied around by churches everywhere. missionaries bought out entire days showings and handed out tickets. pointing out one movie as some ‘revolution’ when everything else is still b-movie mayhem is just dishonest.
i mean, i can counter you right there with Fahrenheit 9/11. most successful documentary ever. all just bush bashing. so what?
pssh.. you talk about the internet, you forget the biggest blog to emerge in years has been the Huffington Post, along with Daily Kos, Crooks and Liars, Democratic Underground, etc. therse just as many and I would bet more liberal blogs. but you see what you want to see… heh.
FOX wins ratings the same way Stern wins ratings. they stew up controversy through personality driven programming.
you can huff and you can puff, but you’re at the brick house now bitch. sorry.
‘most americans’ – the country aint shifting right. sorry. in a two party system you americans can pretend its going one way or the other just by who’s in power, but that isn’t the story on the ground. if the right wing was so sure they had the momentum, you’d see the right wing actually… HAPPY. unconcerned about hollywood, protesters, etc – instead the right wing is angrier than its ever been ever, even going to the extreme of politicizing Christmas to raise funds.
now go jerk off to your copy of newsmax, and dont come back to a movie board unless you actually want to talk about movies. you’ve only posted to make knee jerk reactions to politics based movies i’d wager you havent even seen, and I’ve already noticed you’ve made duplicate posts of them on other forums.
weak.
“MSNBC has Olbermann emerging as a star”
Roflmao!!
Oh man, sweet. F*cking Clueless. :-D
Heh! Yeah right I’m a troll. You guys can’t see the forest for the trees.
Hollywood pumps out liberal message movie, after liberal message movie, after liberal message movie, after liberal message movie, after liberal message movie, after liberal message movie, year, after year, after year, after year… all in the face of continuing box office declines and a political and social shift to the right in this country.
Passion of the Christ comes along and smacks you SQUARE IN THE FACE RIGHT BETWEEN THE EYES and you donut holes STILL HAVEN’T GOT A PHARKING CLUE.
You are absolutely brainwashed into believing that Hollywood presents a balance range of ideology and philosphy. Liberals have such a financial stranglehold on the industry they won’t let anyone who works in that industry suggest otherwise. They don’t present a balanced viewpoint. They aren’t mainstream. They lean HARD LEFT. And in case you haven’t noticed that isn’t what most Americans believe in and stand for. But you won’t notice it, not for a while yet.
It took some 20 years for the American public to oust the Liberal Democrats from all 3 branches of government. It started with Regean in 1980, continued with Republicans taking over Congress in 1994, and will be complete with the upcoming appointment of Alito to the Supreme court.
The Liberal dominated news media is just now starting to see serious problems with their monopoly given dramatically declining Newspaper and Magazine subscriptions – with nothing on the internet to replace it. In fact the internet has been the birthplace and breeding ground of several of the most successful and right-leaning news services such as Powerline, Michelle Malkin, National Review Online, The Drudge report etc.. Not to mention cable news where FOX beats out all other cable news channels COMBINED in ratings.
Popular culture (Movies, TV, Radio) and the Liberal Universities – The American Liberals’ last bastions, their last TRUE monopolies – will give way soon enough. I’m guessing in the next 10 to 15 years.
So enjoy that Ivory Tower while it lasts. The Barbarians are at the gate. :-)
oh man, wow, i just read barny’s rant on the ‘v for vendetta’ thread. looneytunes.
he really is a troll. no need for me to hassle this guy anymore. i’ve say way more than enough. anyone who needs proof do a simple search for ‘barnyrubble’, its like the 5th result down or so…
no i dont think jesus was the savior. i think there may very well be (or was) a god, but its really arrogant of the human race to think we have it all figured out, that in our short stay on this vast, ancient universe we somehow figured it out, that the relgion most americans are born into is teh right one, no spiritual journey or learning about other religions necessary… or that god even gives a crap about us, that theres an afterlife… dont even need to read the bible first, just convert when the preacher puts his hand on the tv and you go to heaven. suree……….
regardless, you’d think a christian would at least put jesus’ life, you know THE GOSPEL, on par with how he died. for all the censorship of violence in this country, christians sure love pushing such morbidity in their religion. wearing crosses… i mean fuck… do you think if jesus came back he ever wants to see another fucking cross? it would be like if JFK came back and everyone was wearing rifle pendants.
the other reason putting the death over his life is just so retarded to me is it underscores the selfishness of christianity. if the bible was just life advice with no promise of an afterlife do you think it would have survived as a religion? no way. the majority of christians dont really know the Bible, become christians just by being the son of one or converting without knowing anything about the religion first, just that Jesus died for them and they are promised heaven if they fall in line, or eternal damnation if they dont do what you say. way to dangle the carrot, guys. jesus’ life, and i have nothign against jesus, gives advice on how to enjoy the life you have and treat people well. but no, these christians think its more important to just show everyone that theres a prize for them when they die, so long as they join the club. thats fucked up. so fucked up.
in America if you ask me, Jesus hasn’t become something to celebrate, he’s become an icon used to control other people. jesus was a revolutionary and a rebel, a philosopher, for certain. the bible was written 200 years after his death, the stories passed down for generations before ever compiled together. its my belief that like other religions, what we have is a guy too cool for his time deified by other people like a round of telephone, or like the Life of Brian.
but of course by actually you know, exploring and thinking critically, I’m some ‘moral relativist’, that Satan has infected my brain and using me as a tool to damn you. sorry, I think life is more complex than “Jesus died for you. no nevermind that he went to heaven after he died to rule with God, in other words, not a big sacrifice at all… he died for you so worship him”.
Ya know, i agree with Peter. it’s just a movie. My red-state mind can’t comprehend all the political jargon and fancy talk Goon and Barney used, but my stand on the media is as follows. It sucks. But, hey. Movies are movies and they show what the movie makers believe. if you don’t like it, just leave! By the way goon, Jesus’ death IS WAY more important than his life. He die as a sacrifice for us and took our punishment. Of course, you probably just think he was a good guy and not the saviour of all mankind, but that’s my take. Merry Christmas!
some people just get so threatened…
like this piece of spin from FOX News about Brokeback Mountain:
‘Brokeback’ Faces Burnout at Box Office
Friday, December 23, 2005
By Roger Friedman
Brokeback Burnout? Cowboys Collapsing?
You wouldn√¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t know it from all the hype and the endless critics√¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢ awards. But Ang Lee√¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s “Brokeback Mountain” may be suffering a little burnout in its third week of release.
Indeed, “Brokeback”√¢‚Ǩ‚Äù-aka the Gay Cowboy movie√¢‚Ǩ‚Äù-has seen declines at the box office every day this week after a huge premiere and subsequent run in gay-concentrated neighborhoods.
But now it may be that reality is setting in, and reality bites, as we all know. On Monday, “Brokeback” was 51 percent off from Sunday. On Tuesday, it was down 9.1 percent from Monday. By Wednesday, it was off another 7.6 percent. All in all, it dropped to No. 10 on its 13th day out.
Today, “Brokeback” nearly doubles its number of theaters to 217, but this may be a real litmus test. There is hardly a straight male in the U.S. who will see this movie voluntarily. No matter how well made it is√¢‚Ǩ‚Äù-and it is very well crafted by a hugely talented group of people√¢‚Ǩ‚Äù-it√¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s hard to imagine a suburban wife coaxing hubby to the Cineplex on Saturday night to see two men consummate their passion.
a limited release movie, following the same box office rhythms as just about every other movie? not selling as many tickets during the weekdays as on the weekend? go figure!
Hey Barny… relax. It√Ǭ¥s just a movie, man. Merry Xmas.
one other thing, you gloated earlier about hwo conservatives are doing well in the hard news media… i dont entirely agree, while you’ve got FOX News, CNN is becoming more centrist, MSNBC has Olbermann emerging as a star, newspapers are about even, and overall I’d say the real bias is towards money and stewing up controversy… and all that is discounting the influence of the Internet…
but anyways, you gloat about the hard news media, yet you cry that Hollywood makes movies with an opinion you dont agree with… what a hypocrite. one value system is allowed to run the show, so long as the one you agree with. you trumpet the free market and capitalism earlier while whining about it at the same time. thats pathetic.
if you want to whine about political influence in art and media, do it across the board for both sides instead of being a hypocrite.
Some hollywood movies are preachy and it annoys me because they put the message over the art of the film, or they just make bad arguments, or they tell me something i already know. like Crash, hated Crash, dont need a rich guy in Hollywood telling me that L.A. is a tough town with lots of racism.
My problem with the media is that for the sake of generating controversy, or trying to be ‘fair’, they’re putting entertainment value ahead of good journalism.
i dont simply say “everyone should be like Jack Cafferty. Ann COulter should be hung”. you on the other hand, just want everything to assimilate to your worldview
P.S.
Brokeback Mountain looks boring to me, its like on South Park when Cartman went to Sundance and saw the movie about gay cowboys eating pudding. very prescient. seems cheesy. i might be wrong.
but who cares? gay cowboys who have to hide their love. that you cant climb a curb that high… there’s a lot of gay people, gay people want to see movies, theres a market for it, they go see it. enough people like it, it wins an award. pretty simple, but people like you have to make everything into something about you being forced to accept gay people.
i mean…. you should. if you actually knew gay people you’d realize theres nothing to be scared of, but to think that Hollywood is telling you what to think with a movie you have to actually choose to go out and see, is something only a complete tool would think. yeah, theres a couple of gay cowboys, but then you idiots with your strawman arguments jump to conclusions and think things like “the liberals are saying all cowboys are gay! thats not how we run things in Texas! those stupid slanderous liberals!”
listen you retard. saying it doesnt take a stand wasn’t a defense of the movie at all, if you actually read what i wrote you’d see i trashed the movie. but of course if he did take a side you’d pull some other reason to poke at it anyways… if it was pro Palistinean: “oh those liberals love terrorists”, if it was the other way around theres the cachet of “zionist propaganda” cries over at New Nation that would pop up.
‘moral relativism’ – i dont really like it when people are too scared to take a side on an issue, but theres a thing about the world: ITS COMPLEX. some things are black and white to you, so many other things are not or at least shouldn’t be if you had a brain that could actually see both sides. if Spielberg cant make up his mind but wants to say somethign about it, he’s free to do so, and i can criticize if i want to or agree with him…
the problem with conservatives is they believe in so many absolutes that they brainwash themselves into towing the party line on every issue. absolutes, yes, may have won political power, but that doesnt mean its the right way. the US Democrats are not really all that liberal in any sense, but there are some relativists in their midst. this is why the republicans are a well oiled machine and the left is not. the left actually have a vast array of opinions, whether is about gay marriage or health care, and they can bicker and argue with each other about issues. why is a variety of opinions a bad thing? anyways, bush didnt really win because of a cry against moral relativism. he won because of fear and smears. Kerry had that thing won until the Swiftvets came along, who if you defend I’ll deservedly just write you off as a complete troll.
then theres the 50% who dont even vote…
I would bet every dollar I ever made in this life that conservatives would never take over popular culture like they occasionally can do in politics. they try to with FCC regulations, making fines for swearing higher than any fine any corporation has paid for any other violation, from tax fraud to environmental abuses.. in politics you’ve got your share of Christians who just vote for which party says they love Jesus more, and then theres the economic conservatives who just want tax cuts but otherwise dont give a shit about religion, whether people swear on TV, whether you say ‘merry christmas’ ‘happy holidays’ or ‘snowflake day’. people who cry about ‘moral relativism’ are in the vast minority, so relying on the fact that the Republicans are running the show is meaningless when it comes to pop culture. about the only thing the conservatives have a stranglehold on is talk radio, and even that is changing.
even after all the bullshit with the FCC, with the Internet and satellite radio and cable television people have managed to find outlets to express themselves more freely than the Republicans want you to. they’re the oens tryign to stick their nose in there to try and ‘protect’ you from alternative ideas.
like i said: liberals are funnier and produce better art. people, even the borderline conservatives, want to laugh, and most do/will continue to accept that liberals run the entertainment industry. I mean, you mention Bruce Willis and Mel Gibson, yet both of those people work with liberals all the time. Gibson at one time was even going to finance movies for Michael Moore, knowing full well what Moore was about.
people like you say ‘libs cant tell right from wrong’, yet it seems lately is the liberals that are actually defending the constitution, and the Republicans that are torturing people, wiretapping their own citizens, and killing at least 10 times as many people than there were who died on 9/11… but republicans are the “bible party” so they think that the fact that they call themselves christians means they have a better idea of right and wrong. psssh… obviously not.
most modern conservatives put their wallet and their comfort over ‘right and wrong’.
yes yes yes. many things are complex and shades of gray. nuance can be a virtue. but there are times when things are right and things are wrong, and I can tell.
like this argument:
i’m right and you’re wrong :P
merry christmas. may you enjoy another year of living in the Stone Age of ideas, where your screenname should feel quite comfortable.
I love this reply:
“the movie doesnt really take a stand or side at all…”
NO SH*T DUMBASS. THAT’S THE WHOLE F*CKING PROBLEM IN A NUTSHELL.
Libs can’t tell right from wrong. They wallow in moral relativism. It’s why they’ve lost political power in this country, it’s why they are suffering dramatic losses in the hard news media, and it’s why they will evenutally suffer the same in the arena of popular culture.
Here’s a great review of the film from debbieschlussel.com
When Steven Spielberg began filming “Munich” in June 2004, he set the tone for his fictional movie about Israeli agents who hunted down the Palestinian terrorists responsible for the slaughter of Israeli athletes at the 1972 Munich Olympics.
Spielberg abruptly stopped filming and closed up shop. Why? Because the 2004 Summer Games were happening in August, and Steven Spielberg didn’t want to upset the terrorists.
That’s what “Munich” is about–not upsetting the terrorists. And rolling over while they attack and kill us. In Steven Spielberg’s world, not going after terrorists brings peace. In the real world, not going after them brings more bloodshed.
munichterrorist.jpg
munichcoffins.jpg
When Spielberg began filming in 2004, it was well known that his film was based on George Jonas’ “Vengeance”–a book discredited as bunk by both Israeli Mossad agents and Palestinians with actual knowledge of the events depicted. So Spielberg claimed the movie was not based on “Vengeance.” If it’s not based on the book, then why do the credits of this film say it is? Spielberg lied.
But not as much as he and admittedly anti-Israel scriptwriter Tony Kushner lied in this two-and-a-half-hour plus celluloid fairy tale. Like the book on which it’s based, “Munich” is long, boring, and filled with fakery.
Spielberg’s Golda Meir is unsure about going after the Munich terrorists. She wavers and constantly seeks reassurance that this is the right thing. But the real-life Golda Meir could not have been more certain and intent on killing these terrorists.
Spielberg’s “Black September” terrorist group is named after the Munich terrorists, who murdered the Israeli athletes in September. The real-life “Black September” is so named after Jordan’s massacre of 10,000 Palestinians in September 1970–causing many Jordanian Palestinians to flee for safety in the West Bank and Israel.
Spielberg’s Palestinian terrorists have deals with CIA officials in which they are paid not to harm American diplomats. Real-life Palestinians in 1973 beat to death U.S. diplomats, like Cleo Noel and George Curtis Moore in the Sudan, with Yasser Arafat personally giving the orders. (They were tortured to death and beaten so badly, authorities could not tell which of the two was the Black man and which was White.)
Spielberg’s Palestinian terrorists have cute, young, innocent, piano-playing daughters who will be fatherless. But he never shows the cute, young, innocent daughters of the Israeli athletes who were made fatherless–and whose fathers, unlike the Palestinian terrorists, were innocent victims with no choice in the matter.
Spielberg’s Mossad agents say bigoted things like, “The only blood that matters to me is Jewish blood,” killing innocent people at whim. The real-life Mossad agents who hunted the Munich terrorists went to great pains to avoid killing innocents (whether or not they were Jewish), a reason it took so many years and financial resources to get all but one of them (Jamil Al-Gashey lives safely in terror-state Syria). In real-life, they killed only one innocent man whom they mistakenly believed to be a terrorist–a Moroccan waiter in Norway–for which those Mossad agents responsible were tried, convicted, and imprisoned–something that does not happen in the Spielberg version of events.
Spielberg’s Mossad agents complain that Israel has no death penalty, so killing the terrorists violates Israeli law. Real-life Israel does have a death penalty for Nazi war criminals, like Eichmann, and recognized that the Munich terrorists were equally worthy.
Spielberg’s Mossad agents cry and brood a lot, unsure of themselves and why they are pursuing terrorists. Been there, seen that before–in the left-wing Israeli film “Walk on Water”. But it bears little resemblance to the real Mossad agents who hunted the terrorists. They were not metrosexual, sensitive guys–as badly as Spielberg and Kushner would like them to be. And thank G-d for that. Like Golda Meir, they could not have been more certain of the just purpose of their mission.
Spielberg’s Mossad agents question why they should kill terrorists who murdered innocent people when they will be replaced by other terrorists. Using that fallacious logic, why have a justice system at all? Bank robbers who go to jail will be replaced by more bank robbers. Ditto for child molesters, rapists, Al-Qaeda terrorists, etc.
Then, there is something I haven’t read in other critics’ accounts of “Munich”–something which made me sick to my stomach. Are the lives of the innocent Israeli athletes so worthless, that the scenes in which they are murdered by Palestinian terrorists must be interspersed with the self-doubting Mossad agent having sex? How would Steven Spielberg like it, if a loved one was shown being bludgeoned, in between scenes of a law enforcement official bouncing up and down on top of the agent’s naked wife? And this happens twice, the first time with a pregnant woman and a sexual position I thought was reserved for NC-17 and X-rated movies. Thanks for blaspheming these murdered athletes’ lives, Spielberg.
From the beginning of this movie, the memories of these innocent victims of terrorism are desecrated, their lives morally equivocated with Palestinian terrorists’ lives. The work Kushner and Spielberg expended to create this undue symmetry of the asymmetrical is the hardest work they did in the entire film.
Using voiceovers from TV and radio news accounts of the Olympic massacre, Spielberg presents the media confusion over whether the Israeli athletes and their Palestinian captors survived. Spielberg shows scenes of families of both Israeli athletes and Palestinian terrorists sobbing–as if their relatives are on equal moral footing. After it is confirmed the Israeli athletes were murdered, Spielberg uses news footage showing pictures and names of the Israeli dead. Interspersed with that, he shows Golda Meir and Israeli generals looking though photos and announcing the names of the Palestinian terrorists. Get it?–They’re equal in this movie.
That’s the message of this movie: An eye for an eye doesn’t work. Instead we should just allow our enemies to take out both our eyes, then our limbs, with no end in sight . . . until death and the onset of rigor mortis. Israel tried Spielberg’s route. And the country’s experience was just the opposite of Spielberg’s message.
When Israel won the Yom Kippur War, when it hunted down the Olympic terrorists, when it invaded Lebanon and had Yasser Arafat in its sites in Beirut, the world respected Israel–and so did its Islamic enemies. And terrorist attacks stopped. When Israel showed weakness–signing empty peace treaties, like Oslo; pulling out of Southern Lebanon in an hour; and giving away Gaza–the world disdained Israel–and so did the Palestinian terrorists. That’s when terrorist attacks escalated. Many more Israeli civilians were murdered and maimed by terrorists in the twelve years after it signed the 1993 Oslo accord than in the twelve years before.
In “Munich,” repeated scenes of the Israeli athletes being taken hostage by the Palestinian terrorists show a poster of Masada in the background at their Olympic quarters. Masada was a famous mountain fortress in Israel, where ancient Jews made their last heroic stand against the Romans. Masada became a symbol of Jewish heroism that inspired the imagination and spirit of the founders of Israel.
But the symbolism of the Masada poster is lost on Spielberg. In his “Munich” vision of the world, he doesn’t want a heroic last stand against terrorists–or any stand at all. He just wants us to roll over and die without a fight.
Steven Spielberg built tremendous political capital with the making of “Schindler’s List.” But he blew it all on “Munich.” And he just wrote his epitaph with it.
There are a lot of “Abu”s in this film–Abu Youssef, Abu Salameh, etc. But the biggest Abu is the one in the credits, Abu Spielberg–Minister of Disinformation
one more post about the ‘liberal media’
is hollywood liberal? well the actors are at least, pretty much… are some of them out of touch? yes, of course, they’re rich, and most rich people are out of touch :P – remember, these people are considered artists, they were the drama nerds all the jocks called ‘faggot’ in high school. dont want a liberal hollywood? talk to your drama club about Pat Buchanan… heh.
i will say this. liberal movies and music, or at least libertarian ones, are just plain better, and i firmly believe that. why? they dont bow to the conservative taboos, are willing to tell weird stories about a ‘sin city’, aliens attacking, going back in time, etc. they’re way more open to so many more ideas and stories…
conservatives? what do the religious right produce as art. Jesus biopics, a dozen different variations of the apocalypse – whether its left behind, judgment, apocolypse or whatever else Jack Van Impe and the Lalonde Brothers are selling as a fundraiser this week… oh wait, the Omega Code, theres another one… what other kind of stories do you have? go to capalert.com and see how even your basic G rated movie gets deconstructed into this awful moral abomination. read from falwell how Tinky Winky, Spongebob and bert and Ernie are breaknig gods law. theyr’e out of control, have no sense of humor, and are too scared to tell any stories. Even Forrest Gump and war movies, which you might consider ‘american dream’ stories or touchy feely, or patriotic, get ripped to shreds by so many of these groups… a movie like “americas heart and soul” that disney released last year didnt even make any money, despite a big campaign, it was their movie to try and repair releations after almost putting out fahrenheit 9/11…
liberal movies get made because theres an audience for them. conservative movies? with PABAAH out there, with Falwell and Capalert and all these other groups out there, theres at least the impression that conservatives… ARE PRUDES! cant make any money off these folk.. so give em NASCAR, sports (most sports media and athletes are pretty conservative) and let them go golfing adn read the stock pages…
that leaves the libertarians like the South Park guys, like Penn and Teller, etc, in the middle, who have a sense of humor, but get pissed off at both ends all the time. they’re so pissed off all the time these days that they lash out at both sides and tehn you get movies like “Team America” where both conservatives and libertarians try to claim it as their own, since both sides get hit pretty hard… people like Trey Parker and Penn Jillette thoguh, have gotten just as self righteous as the people they criticize, they tell hollywood to shut up but they’re out there pushign thier own views on things too…
anyways bottom line:
liberals: Funnier, more artistic, and have the market (oh wait, the ‘free market’ is only good to people like barney when it plays to their views/their advantage, i forgot)
yeah i’m being a dick on Christmas. sue me :P
i saw it today. its not a ‘liberal message movie’. the movie doesnt really take a stand or side at all… the only message of the movie is that revenge isn’t as sweet as you’d think, that it can mess you up… ‘killing is wrong’… is that a liberal message these days? is America that screwed up?
anyways, it doesnt really matter. the movie… sucks. its the worst Spielberg movie I’ve seen (no, I havent seen Hook)… its also teh least commercial movie he’s done, and a movie that doesnt feel spielberg-ish in any way shape or form… he tried to go deep, and he just missed the boat entirely. it really has proven to not be spielbergs element. when he did Schindlers List and Saving Private Ryan and everything, serious as they are, they’re spielberg movies in many ways… you dont want to say it, but they are… entertaining. i mean Schindlers List is actually in many parts… funny… (Ben Kingsley’s character gets a bunch of one liners)…
but with Munich, we have Eric Bana as the lead, and he is the most dead-faced, unexpressive lead character in a movie in years, he talks monotone, as does almost every character… you’d think with daniel craig and geoffrey rush on board you could get a standout performance from someone, but they all, repeat ALL, fall on their face..
every failure with this movie is in the style/presentation and less to do with its content. As political as this movie supposedly is, theres not really any message to be shocked or offended by. the violence yes, is pretty extreme in some cases, and loud, but its showy in a bad way, you get the feeling it would be more intense and graphic if it was more suggested than seen… this one time they show a flashback of a massacre while Eric Bana is getting it on with his wife, and they combine it with “the Passion” type score of Arab wailing with violins playing, and its so pretentiously ridiculous is amazing. its kitsch.
this is one of those movies that starts off with you thinking its good, but over time you just pray for it to end. its bloated, overly long – it feels like the extended edition DVD of a movie that was already bad in the first place. story-wise it really is no better than a b-movie revenge flick, and if you get something out of this, some message that you think makes it good, I guess you’re one of those people that liked the overly preachy, even more pretentious “Crash”…
the difference though, is while I still hated Crash, its very watchable. Munich, at nearly 3 hours, isn’t. terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible film that could very well bomb simply by inevitable bad word of mouth.
as much as some critics are praising it, you have to read between the lines of their reviews. they’re reviewing the message and not the technique. again, this is a movie that fails basically because of its execution. of course there are some decent scenes and shots, but it cant sustain the films length in any way shape or form… would be better off to watch a history channel documentary or the 80s TV movie of the same story. this movie is getting a good chunk of bad reviews, i recommend you check them out. of course some of you will check it out anyways becuase its spielberg (thats why i went to see it, i’ve always trusted him to at least entertain)
one more thing: i found out that the script was given a run through by the man who wrote ‘angels in america’, which is my least favorite anything of this past decade. there hasnt been a movie or series more boring or pretentiously ridiculous than ‘angels’ in a long time, and some of the worst things about that writers style are in Munich, like the kitschy sex scene i mentioned.
anyways, i give Munich a 2.5 out of ten. a more refined version fo this post will show up as a review on spacejunk.org within the next week.
…speaking of conservative filmakers and movies that portray the American military in a positive light…
…How the hell did “The Movie Blog” miss Bruce Willis’ Deuce Four project?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-1892675,00.html
Unfortunately Hollyweird can’t do a “Straight Story” about any confilict the Western world has been engaged in outside of WWII – for partisan and ideological reasons. Roosevelt was a Democrat, and had socialist leanings. Nevermind the fact that he believed in things that are so odious to Liberals nowadays such as Christianity and traditional family values. This is why Saving Private Ryan was such a good and patriotic movie – and every movie made about every other war portrays us as naive, misguided, and/or corrupt.
They can’t get behind Korea or Viet Nam because we were fighting communists – which marked our first big steps away from socialism (a system that doesn’t work) towards capitalism (a system that does). Freedom is freedom whether it’s at the ballot box or in the market place – that’s a battle Liberals lost in the 50’s, 60’s, and 70’s.
As a result of those ideological and military losses – the validation of our economic and moral belief in freedom as expressed by democracy and capitalism – they haven’t been able to get behind any single conflict the Western world has been engaged in since.
And don’t get me wrong – I don’t mean to suggest that Liberals don’t believe in Democracy – but from a values standpoint unless Democracy results in a population voting itself into socialism (the way Europe has) they don’t view it as being a success or as being any different morally from a benevolent dictatorship.
Nowadays if you want a film that depicts a Western conflict post-WWII in a genuinely positive light you have to look to a genuinely conservative film maker – such as Mel Gibson and “We were soldiers”.
Until the the liberal baby-boomer generation that monopolizes Hollyweird dies off and/or more conservative film makers such as Gibson make further inroads into popular culture, this won’t change anytime in the near future. But it WILL happen – it’s just a matter of time. Socialism doesn’t work, and Hollyweird can’t maintain this ideological illusion forever.
They have been putting out a lot of movies with politial views. I was hopping this was a straight story. It has Eric Bana and Rush. I’m seeing this.
Donna A.
I’m sick to death of the Liberal machine that has taken over Hollywood. Therefore, I must agree with barnyrubble….except about the toaster part…
Oh God here we go again with another Liberal “Message” film. Between this one and Brokeback Cowboy Hollyweird is doing their darndest to convince us we’re all a bunch of barbarians.
The Israelis are the moral equivalent of Islamic Fascists and they were unjustified in tracking down the knuckle-dragging car-swarmers that murdered their atheletes in 1972.
Suuuuuuuurrre…..
I think I’ll go stick my dick in the toaster now. That makes just about as much sense.