Us film fans are an odd breed. We’re like dogs really, there are many similarities we all share… and yet there are many different sub-breeds. The rabid fan-boys… the Indy snobs… chick flick junkies… A.D.D. blockbuster nuts… ect. Some of us are mixed breeds too. One of the common genetic traits that runs through the whole species of film fans though, is that in every breed you’ll always find some individuals who from time to time will pre-decide that they hate a film. What I mean is, they make up their mind that they hate something, before even seeing it.
Now let me make a VERY important distinction here. There is a HUGE difference between PREDICTING a movie will be bad, and PRE-DECIDING that it’s bad. Here’s an example:
A few years ago when I was still living in Saskatoon, a bunch of us were hyped about going to see the first X-Men flick. One of our friends though, had already made up his mind that the movie was going to totally suck. He talked about it all week… all we heard from him for about 5 days straight was how awful X-Men was going to be. Some of us were a little skeptical, but still looking forward to it. So off we all go to see it, and the film was MUCH BETTER than anyone thought a comic book movie could be (remember, the comic book genre was DEAD at the time).
We came out of the film just amazed that a comic movie could be made so well. But sure enough, our friend immediately started ranting about how it was one of the worst films of all time. He had pre-decided to hate the film… and talked about it so much, that he had become emotionally invested in it. So no matter how good the film turned out, he had pre-convinced himself it was awful. As a side note, some years later he mentioned the film had stated to grow on him.
Then there is PREDICTING a movie will suck. I’ll use myself as an example here and one of the times I had to eat crow. For almost a year I was predicting that the new TMNT (Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles) was going to be horrible. As the weeks grew closer I talked on the site and on various shows how no one should get their hopes up for TMNT because I thought it was going to be stupid as hell. Well… opening day came and off to the theaters I went. Guess what… I ended up actually liking it. It was with great humiliation that I had to go on a friend of mine’s show and admit on air that TMNT was actually pretty good (we had debated if it would be good or not the previous week).
There is a difference between predicting and pre-deciding. We see the pre-deciders all the time. People who get so emotionally invested in their predictions, that no matter what happens, they will declare the movie bad. Sometimes people pre-decide they hate a film because of the subject matter… sometimes it’s because of a certain actor or actress who is in the film. Sometimes it’s because of a detail (Optimus Prime has a mouth, Galactus is a Storm Cloud). Sometimes it’s just in spite of someone else (trust me, there are people who have already drafted their emails to me about how bad Transformers was weeks before seeing it). There are lots of reasons, and let’s face it… once in a while we’re all prone to it.
An argument could be made that there are also people out there who pre-decide that a movie is great. That’s true… but I’ve found it’s not as common. Disappointment is a hard emotion to hide. No matter how much I wanted Spider-man 3, Shrek 3 or Pirates 3 to be amazing… the stench of the stink was too strong for my face not to contort with disgust.
So why do we do this? Why do some people purposefully limit their possible enjoyment of a movie in advance? I’m sure there are many reasons, but one of the biggest ones is pride. And the louder you talk about how much a movie will suck in advance, the more damaging it is to the old pride to admit you ended up liking it. It’s EASY for most people… when most people predict something, they don’t have hundreds of thousands of people that week reading it and knowing their prediction. And when they’re wrong… they don’t wake up to a hundred emails mocking them… they just get to quietly let it slip by without anyone noticing. But when you talk loud to your friends, or you talk loud on a forum, or heaven forbid if you run one of these damn sites… it’s a lot harder to just admit you liked something when you spent a lot of time and energy telling people it would suck. :P
I know I did it at least once. Back when the first Jackass movie came out… I pre-decided I hated it… sure enough after seeing it for the first time I told myself I hated it, and had a terrible time. Later though… watching it on DVD… I kinda liked it. I let my pre-decision ruin a good time for myself a the theater.
So what about you? Do you think… looking back in retrospect… that you personally ever pre-decided you hated a film… and them later thought you might have cheated yourself out of an ok time at the theater?
I predecided Pirates 3 would suck because Pirates 2 sucked and the two were filmed simultaneously. Sometimes, it’s common sense that a flick is gonna blow, so it might be fun to flame on. Speaking of flame on, I’ve predecided that FF2 will suck and blow at the same time.
@ Darren:
Fair call on the movie. There was another blog talking about Hostel 2 and it referenced this link. I got my movies mixed up.
I never said that the critic started the conflict. I agree though that Roth is arguing that some critics wont praise a film’s qualities because it is from the horror genre.
@snowlep:
Check that link again; it has nothing to do with Roper’s thoughts, or pre-thoughts, on ‘Hostel 2’. It was in regards to “Cabin Fever”. In addition, the knee -jerk reaction was from Roth, not the film critic.
It could be said the conflict comes from the “pre-decision” to hate film critics. (the myth that all film critics despise the fantasy and horror genres)
if i am going to pay to see something I hope it is good. even if the trailers have sucked and all the signs point to disaster if I am going to pay money then every single time I hope it is great as I do not want to waste my cash.
but sometimes there are factors you have to take into account…like the fact that oh i dunno say there is a property you love. like…lets just say there is a cartoon from your childhood called transformers that you love and have wanted to see a live action version of for years. and that there is a director you consider to be one of the very worst to have ever stepped behind the lens and he is given the property you love. then it is very hard to overcome your reasonable preconceived ideas. but having said that for all the hate I have dumped on it and you can call me liar or whatever but I have stated from the start i fucking pray that the film is fucking awesome. i want to like it…..because i am going to see it. I am not going to pay my money and sit there hoping it sucks. i will be completely honest when it finishes whtehr or not I liked it or hated it…..the latest trailers have blown my fucking mind. they look fucking awesome and I have a feeling the film is going to be bigger then people think. especially since it is almost the only “new” film out this summer.
anyway my point is there are varying reasons to pre judge a film. I mean i am sure doug pre judged pirates 3 since he hated the other 2.
say you hated fellowship and two towers chances are rotk aint going to work for you so it isn;t always unreasonable to make a fairly educated assumption that the film you are about to see isn’t for you..taking into account the varying factors.
but with the cost of going to the movies these days to go in willing a movie to suck or deciding you hate it without giving it a chance seems nuts to me.
Peter Travers of Rolling Stone has to be the worst for pre-judging movies. The Matrix, the Harry Potter series, and recently – Snakes on a Plane, were trashed so much in advance it was guaranteed that he would trash the films when they were released. in the case of the Matrix and Potter, he’s pretty much pretended he never said what he did. as for SOAP, nothing will change his mind, and I’m not even saying its worth defending to a huge extent, but it was clear in advance that the film would not even be given a chance.
In other words, Peter Travers is an asshole.
Sorry, but I can’t see much of a difference between predicting and pre-deciding, and your two examples don’t provide much clarification. In the case of X-Men, your friend was a moviegoer expressing his expectations of seeing the film, whereas in the case of TMNT, you were a movie pundit expressing an opinion about an upcoming movie. The process is pretty much the same, except you seem to be saying that the pre-decider cannot or will not see the film for what it is (i.e. he looses his objectivity), whereas the predicter is prepared to let the film change his opinion around if it defies his expectations.
Interestingly, Eli Roth has come out and criticised Richard Roeper for basically ‘pre-deciding’ that Hostel 2 would be awful. Here’s the link:
http://www.moviesonline.ca/movienews_12226.html
If a movie looks like shit, I decide not to see it. On the other hand, I have misjudged before. I will go to the grave regretting skipping Moulin Rouge on the big screen. I adore that movie now. Pirates 1 was another that I thought looked like shit, and I loved it. I thought 40 Year Old Virgin would be stupid, and it is one of the funniest movies I’ve ever seen. EVERYONE prejudges stuff, but I don’t purposely flame against a movie before I see it just because I’ve decided to hate it. I can understand why some people flame against certain things. A flick like Transformers is going to be a target for flames(on Optimus) because it is based on source material beloved by nerds everywhere. No matter how great or bad the movie ends up being, there will always be people on both sides flaming away.
Da Vinci code. Oh what a load of… how did they make such a mess of things?
Anchorman…still think it sucks though
wow john a very intelagent coherant observations on movie. They were exactly my thought. I questioned reading your review of pirated 3 before it came out, and sure enough I hated it. The same was true with BORAT I was expecting to laugh, and had seen the first 5 mins online. So the first couple of laughs felt forces and slighty killed by overhype
Somtimes I wonder if all this specaltion on the net, and commenting as I am doing now accually takes away from the magic of the ‘surprise’ when you go and see a film you have little information about.
Brian
I usually don’t hate a film at all before I give it a chance. But when I do get a chance and it can’t even keep me awake for the whole duration of the film: I’m not very interested.
I usually like Franchise movies, though. I didn’t even disagree with “Catwoman” that much, so it’s hard for me to instantly hate a movie before I see it, but often it would not thrill me enough to see in theaters (because I just don’t have the time), but often, I will rent it on DVD. But it’s summer, so I’ll be seeing more movies than usual.
Overall: I don’t really ever pre-decide I hate a film and that it suckls, though I sometimes won’t be interested.
It has never happened to me. I have to point out that there is a difference between “hate” and “not being interested”. For example, I haven’t pre-decided that I’ll “hate” Rob Zombie’s take on “Halloween”, but I’m not rushing out opening weekend to see it either. Same with ‘Die Hard 4″ (because I’m slightly reminded of what I didn’t like in the third film)- I don’t “hate” it with a made up mind. I’m just…not interested.
I sometimes take a ‘on the fence’ approach. This in regards to ‘Transformers’- I never played with Transformers as a kid. However, I did watch repeats of Ultraman and Johnny Sokko, so having a film that has robots and giant creatures smash up stuff is alright by me so long as the filmmakers have a respect for people’s IQ points (re: Roland Emmerich’s “Godzilla”) still, I didn’t want to “hate” or to “love”, but rather, just take a “wait and see” approach. (note: I will be in line opening day, the film looks good and it is a non-sequel)
I will say, however, that there have been friends, sites, and the piss ant fanboys who have “convinced” me not to see a film (or to see one), only to eventually catch up to it and wonder what the heck those people are talking about.
One more thing: this is why I love film festivals. Most of the time, it is only hearing about a film or what time can I make a screening-without a chance to makeup my mind if I’m going to “love” or “hate”. For the most part I’m going in “cold”, and I wind up loving the film after I seen it (re: Donnie Darko) or hating it and slowly sulk low in the chair so no one will notice I’m there…as if somebody was looking for me…
i have decided that Predicting/Pre-deciding is pretty much a dominant gene in my film-watching structure. I think everyone has it to a degree. But with the proper amount of refinement, it can be a useful tool. My girlfriend for some fucked up reason, loves the Wayans brothers. She did everything but break into tears because i wouldnt sit down and watch White Girls with her(one of her favorite movies). I kick , i scream, i bitch and yes, at the bitter end i may have even cried a little. But i did not cave. i stood my ground and solidified my opinion on not only the movie, but all of the Wayans brothers movies as well. I had never watched all of White Girls, but i had seen various clips leading up to a total of about 10-15 min of screen time, not including the trailers and various TV spots. From that little bit of exposure, i was able to formulate an accurate enough opinion about the movie as a whole, which i could use as my justification for for hating, not only the movie, but any past or future films by those no-talent ass clowns. In the end, its just the opinion of one movie loving dork on a quest to complete his enjoyment for good films, but you know what, its my opinion. Suck it, Wayans brothers.
Not only what you say is true, but I can be guilty of pre-loving a film before I see it as well. Anything Star Trek or Transformers and I’m Pavlov’s drooling dog at the dinner bell. It goes both ways easily.
I’m guilty of pre-deciding to like a movie more than I am of pre-deciding to hate one. There have been many a film I’ve thought would be incredible but have let me down upon seeing them. But I have a story much like John’s. A friend of mine was so adamant that Batman Begins would suck royally, the same as the previous two had. To this day, he will not admit that it’s a good film.
i think my expectations get so much lower for a film, that I end up not caring anymore even after I see it, it becomes disposible. sequels in general are having that effect on me. it used to be you’ll watch a film and get the feeling that these characters are in peril, or they might not make it out, now it’s like you KNOW they’ll be a 3rd movie so why bother
i’ve definately gotten to the point where i pre decide franchises. I end up disliking future installments more and more, because either they never live up to the first one, or i never feel like these stories put the chracters in situations in which by part 3 or 4 they aren’t around or don’t bring the movie back “full circle”
There are a ton of Transformers fans out there who are pre-deciding to hate the new flick because it doesn’t live up to their childhood-preconceptions of how a live-action TF movie should look. Personally, I’ve pre-decided to think that it is going to be the most incredible movie of the summer, if not the year. I’m dying to see those haters eat cyber-crow on opening day. Even if the story is crap, you can’t deny that the effects kick major robotic hindquarters. Plus there’s a hot girl. Every male on the planet, plus every girl who’s hot for Shia LaBeouf is going to be orgasming at both the hotties and the killer cybertronian destruction that this film will unleash. Pre-haters will be the only ones left unsatisfied.
theres another group of pre-deciders – those that have decided what film they want, and will trash the film if and when it is not exactly what they expected. In many cases, they walk out of the theater reviewing based on what they wanted to see, instead of what they saw.
I “pre-judged” Pirates 1 pretty harshly, and only went to see it in the bargain theater several weeks after its premiere. I thought that being based on a theme park ride, it just HAD to be bad. Definitely proven wrong there.
I have some pretty strong reservations about Bay’s Transformers, having been a die-hard fan since the 80s, but am hoping deep down it’ll be another case of my being wrong.
I used to have a problem pre-deciding that anything with Meryl Streep was going to suck (my father absolutely hated her when I was growing up, and it stuck on me), or anything with Leo DeCaprio, but luckily I got over it. I found that I missed out on allot of good stuff.
I probably still do pre-judge some movies, but am unaware that I am doing it. But then everyone knows that all Tim Burton movies suck ;)
I try to avoid pre-deciding that a movie is good or bad, and i feel that i have been succesfull so far, even though i sometimes feel that i may have pre-judged that Superman Returns is bad because Singer left X-Men for it
I also more than not have pre-decided that iam going to like a flick. On one occasion if you dont mind me sharing, was AVP now, in my heart i knew it ws going to suck, but i wanted to like it so bad, because i had never seen an alien movie on the big screen, so when the movie was done i found my self saying it sucked, but how bad is a movie doing is job if you have to look hard for the aspects you liked, and they wernt the story, characters, or action?
Same went with freddy vs jason, when it ended i raved about how much i loved it and thought it was amazing, i do actually like the film, although i can admit it is a tad turdish.
I can only think of a few films ive predecided to hate, one was Disturbia not because i didnt think it looked good but because of what it emobdied. people said it was so original, until i remind them of rear window and the simpsons episode that mocked it,where bart has a broken leg, i just chose to dislike it because it represented the stupid average movie goer who will fork out cash to see the movie with the most advertising(fantastic four 2 which i heard at least 15 people in the theatre say that looks good) and never go beyond that to seak out the great little films.
I never prehate movies because they will suck, i prehate movies because i cant stand the people i will have to sit in the theatre to see it with…
I have definately predecided to LIKE a movie (see star wars prequels) but I dont think I have ever pre decided to hate a movie, if I did I just never went to see it. I know I have gone into movies expecting nothing and being blown away, many of my favorite movies did that to me (Matrix, Life of David Gale) but I never hated a movie for the sake of hating it.