Just over 4 years ago I wrote an article here on The Movie Blog stating that actors Al Pacino and Robert De Niro were, at the time, overrated actors and did not deserve to be mentioned in any conversation about the best actors working today. You can imagine the stir that caused. I was called crazy, insane, stupid… and that I had no taste or knew anything about film. Keep in mind that I was NOT saying their careers were overrated. It’s impossible to overrate the careers of these two giants… careers that my never be matched in our lifetimes. No, my point was that where the two of them are RIGHT NOW as actors was overrated.
Many people still believe that because of past brilliance, that means they’re every bit as brilliant and talented today. My point was that this is not true. The sad reality is that neither Robert De Niro or Al Pacino have the chops, wisdom, passion or drive that it takes to be one of the best actors on the planet any longer. Those days are gone and the two are sadly now just hollow shells of what they used to be.
10 years ago, could you have ever imagined the possibility that Robert De Niro would make a film and NO ONE wanted to pick it up? Well, that’s what just happened at Sundance this year. De Niro’s film “What Just Happened?” played at Sundance, and no studio or distributor even gave the movie a sniff. Who could have ever imagined that? Well… today it’s not surprising in the least.
Even Francis Ford Coppola came out last year and bashed the two titans of the acting world. The hard reality is this, aside from 1 brilliant performance by Pacino in the small film “The Merchant of Venice” a couple of years ago, the two of them have done basically nothing but crap, and turned in crap performances in the last 12-13 years:
– City by the Sea (De Niro)
– Gigli (Pacino)
– Showtime (De Niro)De Niro
– The Recruit (Pacino)
– Analyze That (De Niro)
– Sim0ne (Oh gag) (Pacino)
– The Good Shepherd (De Niro)
– Two for the Money (Pacino)
– The Score (De Niro)
– 15 Minutes (gag gag gag) (De Niro)
– 88 Minutes (That’s 73 minutes more that Robert and one of the worst films ever) (Pacino)
– Hide and Seek (De Niro)
– Meet the Fockers (De Niro)
You may not think all those movies are crap… you might even have the opinion that a couple of them are pretty good, but there’s no denying that the days of The Godfather, Scarface, Goodfellas, Raging Bull et. et. et. are miles ahead of any of the movies listed above.
Now, others are starting to point out the sad state of the careers of these two, possibly greatest of all time, actors. The other day the LA Times ran an article titled: “Pacino and De Niro: How the mighty have fallen“. Here are some of the excerpts from that article:
The two icons of ’70s New Hollywood, heroes to a generation of young actors and filmmakers, have become parodies of themselves, making payday movies and turning in performances that are hollow echoes of the electrically charged work they did in such films as “Serpico,” “Dog Day Afternoon,” “Mean Streets” and “Taxi Driver.”
Not every aging actor in Hollywood has to embarrass himself. While Pacino and De Niro grab the dough, working for hacks and nonentities, Nicholson, with rare exception, has picked his spots, doing movies with Martin Scorsese, Alexander Payne and Sean Penn. Clint Eastwood, who’s even older than Nicholson, has remained an iconic figure by working with the best director of all — himself.
Here’s the sad part… as bad as things are right now, they’re about to get a whole lot worse. “Righteous Kill” is on the way.
The news of Righteous Kill was greeted with great excitement from the movie fan community. Finally, a film with Al Pacino and Robert De Niro together at last (they really only had 1 scene together in Heat and were never on screen together in Godfather 2)! Even I, who had lost most of my faith in the two, was pumped up about it. But that excitement quickly got a reality check about where these two actors are at when it was announced they added 50 Cent to the movie as well. A collective “What The Hell?!?!” could be heard around the websphere.
Oh, and the same director of 88 Minutes (which has a rating of 06% on Rotten Tomatoes and 17% on Metacritic), Jon Avnet, is the director of Righteous Kill… so any hope we may have been vainly grasping onto for this movie has officially been flushed down the toilet.
Yes, times have changed. There was a time when anything with either of these two legends in it would instantly get people’s attention… now it feels like their presence in a movie is actually a negative and causes some people to LOSE interest. Never thought this day would come.
So what are we saying? Are we claiming De Niro and Pacino are completely washed up and incapable of ever doing anything of value again? Not really… I think The Merchant of Venice showed us that Pacino can still pull out a great performance once in a while… but for the most part the magic seems to be gone, and what I said 4 years ago (that neither one of these guys deserves to be mentioned in any discussion about the best actors working today) is even more true today. Such a shame.
I think Pacino and De niro are great actors. But, I’ve never been
that impressed with a lot of the actors that are supposed to be
“the best!”. That’s why I can easily say they are overrated and
should not be thought of as “acting gods”. I don’t know why so
many people get worked up over the simple fact that these two
great actors are overrated and past their prime. Yes, they are
to be respected, but no, they are not to be placed on some sort
of pedestal. That’s like worshiping the guy who did a great job of
putting in that tile floor in your bathroom. Yeah, he’s a great
craftsman and deserves to be respected, but do you think he’s
a god?
Johnny Depp on the list of has-beens? Has that guy ever made a flop? I think he is probably the most versatile actor today!
Why the knock on 50 cent? Granted its a Pacino/ De Niro movie, but who’s to say he cant hold his own. Give the man a chance, Get Rich or ie Tryin’ actually was pretty good!
James,
do you really mean that?
I saw on a cable news channel that Al Pacino’s last movie, 88 Minutes, was a box-office flop.
And in Ocean’s 13, he played a villain role.
I’d rather watch Speed Racer rather than this new film he will be doing with De Niro.
Mark, you’re right — I didn’t mean to imply he hadn’t been in anything good since (although my post does read that way). The “In my HOME!” scene was more sort of an early warning sign of the hamming yet to come.
Dean, you make a good point about it not being the same industry anymore — which leads me to wonder if we’re not seeing passion from them because they don’t feel there’s much to get passionate about?
Ah, maybe I’m just making excuses. I can’t help it — I’d like to think they still have it in them.
i agree with you too, karen. but i think pacino has been like that in many films. shouting and emotion doesn’t always equate to good acting, so i am indifferent to this argument concerning pacino. but it does really bother me when people say it about de niro.
as for coppola, all he says, is that he doesn’t feel the same kind of passion coming from them as they once had, which is probably true. it isn’t the same industry any more. Once you have made the godfather, or taxi driver, what else can match up to those. I don’t think Coppola was necessarily criticizing them too much, i mean like the article says, he can’t really say anything, can he?
I am still interested to see who john thinks isn’t an over-rated today, as he still hasn’t mentioned that yet.
Karen, you have a good point although Pacino did have some good flicks after Godfather II.
Mark Salinas, MN
At their best, they’re amazing. But I agree they have been inconsistent.
Am I the only one who thinks Pacino was getting hammy pretty early on? In Godfather II, watch the scene when Michael and Frank Pentangeli talk about the assassination attempt in Michael’s bedroom — “Where my WIFE SLEEPS! Where my CHILDREN come and PLAY-with-their-toys.” I always say that’s when we lost him. It breaks my heart. It breaks my… (Sorry — couldn’t resist.)
As for 15 Minutes — I caught the last 20 minutes or so on TV a few months ago. I haven’t seen the whole thing, but that last 20 minutes was horrible. It wasn’t the first time I’ve seen DeNiro in something and wondered, “What was he thinking?”
Who really cares? Great movies come along every once in a lifetime. DeNiro and Pacino have given us great movies and even those you list, some are good. And The Score was a really good movie, no, not Godfather quality, but really good.
And really haven’;t they done enough GREAT to be allowed to do some good and some not so good? Haven’t they earned at least that basic respect from fans? I would rather see a horrible DeNiro or Pacino movie than most of the crap the studios put out today.
Wasn’t what Coppola said about them proven to be taken out of context or something like that?
Pacino is doing some good work although it’s not coming in at a fast break speed, but it’s there.
I know John left out Insomnia, and Angels In America which Pacino won an Emmy for if I remember correctly, and those films/mini-series were highly respected, and received great reviews.
I thought everyone was good in Insomnia, and Pacino did play a big part in that. He pulled off that sleep deprived guilty cop act very well I think.
I think that Pacino has been smarter than De Niro is picking good projects as of lately, but it’s been a while since they’ve done some great work.
…”The sad reality is that neither Robert De Niro or Al Pacino have the chops, wisdom, passion or drive that it takes to be one of the best actors on the planet any longer. Those days are gone and the two are sadly now just hollow shells of what they used to be”….
As much as I like these two giant icons, that pretty much says it all.
They should just gracefully retire.
I agree, I watched an old Al Pacino movie last night called “The Panic in Needle Park” made in 1971. I believe this was Pacino’s first movie? Wow was he a good actor! I am not sure why these actors decide it’s time to quit acting and continue to just play themselves over and over? Put Johhny Depp and Jack Nicholson on the list of “has beens”.
Mark Salinas, MN
suresh you’re forgetting, John is not a film critic. well, he’s a critic when it suits him i guess.
Oh, come on. Both these guys have paid their dues and proved their chops. If they want to make movies no one else gives a shit about, who are we to say “fuck you” to them? If they want to do projects they personally enjoy and do things they hadn’t done before, more power to them. They’ve both more than proved themselves many times over, and don’t need (nor have to deal with) film critcs and others getting angry over it.
My wife in NY this week on business, calls me last night and says, I am standing next to R.DeNiro and C.Chase. They both were headed to the opening of the Baby Mama. I said say hello, and ask DeNiro how ya doing, he says great, but TIRED. Maybe that says it all?
@Dean
I am not questioning their acting abilities (they are both fine thesbians) but I do however find them overrated. I know I going to make a lot of enemies here but I didnt find pacino’s performace in godfather as memorable as the rest of the population.
Kanthan,
they have been in bad films, yes, but what does that have to say about their acting ability?
@John
I got to totally agree with you on this one, both actors seem to insist on making bad film after another where is their good judgement gone?
P’.s I didnt think de niro was anything special in stardust although I did find the charming
I thought De Niro stole the show in Stardust and Pacino was golden in Donnie Brasco.
Can’t argue with Nicholson but he made some mistakes also (Anger Management)
A lot of actors go through that patch where things don’t work. They don’t carry the whole film, they’re just frontlining it. So if it’s bad, they get all the blame.
Even the great Marlon Brando went through this but he still made a comeback with Last Tango in Paris and The Godfather.
There’s still more to come from these actors. I know it. The right script and the right director just have to come along.
John
i get what youre saying and what coppola said too.
if coppola can light a fire under their butts thats great.
he wouldnt say those things if he didnt know what they were capable of.
but i dont think either of them have lost it. -far from it.
i find myself absolutely riveted watching both of these guys perform their craft with a big grin on my face.
they are still just as great as ever to me.
no matter how bad the movie is, these guys totally absorb my attention every second they are on the screen.
i <3 and appreciate them both.
Salem, heres a link- http://www.film.com/movies/story/francis-ford-coppola-calls-pacino/17019626
John, can you please tell us what Cappola said about them? I’m seriously dying to know!
What about the HBO version of “Angels in America”? That came out only a few years ago I think. Pacino gave a REALLY good performance as a closeted homosexual dying of aids. Actually, everyone was pretty brilliant in that movie. Should check it out.
I don’t think either actor is done for, but they definitely need make better decisions with the films they choose.
I think Al Pacino has always been over-rated, and that’s my honest opinion, not just because of the articles that have to light.
But John, i think you are really confused if you think that De-Niro or Pacino are past it as actors. They could act anyone today off the screen. You mention Russell Crowe and Robin Williams stole the show against Pacino…so what? Other actors are allowed to have great performances too.
De Niro’s acting talents aren’t past it, but his decision making is. I saw you wrote you can’t blame other people, but what do you expect from Rocky and Bulwinkle and 15 minutes. No amount of great acting would have saved some of the films you mentioned.
Yes, the two might not have reproduced some of the great performances of the past, but you can’t expect an Oscar performance everytime. Who is doing that consistantly today? (and no, edward norton is not) If you think they are two of the most over-rated actors working today, you are slightly confused in my books because as you said yourself, Pacino put in a great performance recently in Merchant of Venice. If they sort out their own minds and only choose high quality films and directors, like Eastwood, he world will see that they are still two of the best actors living today.
Well I think that they were in good movies and they were good in them. I agree they were not the selling points as the ones that you mentioned like Williams, Crowe, and also for Insomnia Christopher Nolan. I just thought they were good in them and therefore I still think they got it. In spite of my belief in that they deserve all the shit in the world for picking those shitty projects and thinking “Hey here is a paycheck!” One I was surprised that you did not add to the list and I think it is because the memory is just too painful…Rocky and Bullwinkle for de Niro. I still think of that one and I wonder “What kind of crack was he smoking…does he still have some?”
It grieves me to say this, but I have to agree with Gio on this. Heck, it pains me to even say “Godsend”…and I’m slightly pleased to know that I’m not the only one who despised “15 Minutes”.
In fact, after “Heat”, the only good film Pacino was in was “Donnie Brasco”. Hell, he’s a good actor, but for the past X number of years, he’s been in crapfests. Deniro? “Stardust” was a great (and overlooked) film- but it still rolled dice and craps out. Not to mention that DeNiro didn’t have a huge part.
“It’s a poor actor who blames the project”
Could not have said it any better.
You see what I mean
Hey BRDanzig
I think there’s a big difference between being IN A GOOD MOVIE and being GOOD IN A MOVIE.
Sure Insomnia was good… but it was Robin Williams who made that movie
Sure The Insider was good, but it was Russell Crowe who made that movie (and got the Oscar Nomination for it)
Same with Stardust, same with Copland.
Hey Gerry,
You said:
“I think both Pacino and De Niro still has it in them…. they just need the right project.”
I see where you’re coming from, but that’s the same thing everyone always says about every actor on the planet. Everyone in the world can look great with “the right project”. Great actors deliver great performances even in bad movies or elevate them.
There’s an old saying that says “It’s a poor carpenter that blames the tools”… I believe that adapts to “It’s a poor actor that blames the project”.
I think both Pacino and De Niro still has it in them…. they just need the right project. Lately, they just can’t seem to connect with one. I’m hoping they will eventually.
You know to be honest I have never really thought of this until now and I have to agree that it is true that they have been in a lot of crap but they have also been in good movies as well
Pacino
– the Devil’s Advocate
– Insomnia
– the Insider
de Niro
– Ronin
– Stardust
– Copland
While they do not match the length of the list you just made, they still got it I think. I think part of the reason also is that they are not always surrounding themselves with talent like in their heyday. I am not blaming other people per se but the fact is you look good when you work with people of equal talent. Scorcese, Coppola. etc.
After all look at people like Christopher Walken or Harrison Ford, they have been in shit but they can still pull it off. I think it is too early to write off De Niro and Pacino.
Here I am, happy for an older gangster style movie, and Fiddy is thrown into it. Can DMX just beat the hell out of him so I can watch something…. I want my movies with fedoras, damnit!
Hey Leeloo
Sorry man, but the “let’s blame other people” thing doesn’t hold weight here in my opinion…. not for 12 years of bad films and bad decisions. They are the makers of their own fate. They choose what to be in, and according to the LA Times article, it seems they become pains in the ass too.
You can still put in a good performance in a bad movie… it happens all the time. These two have lost it. They’ll always be considered amongst the best of all time, and well they should… but as of right now… I wouldn’t put either of them in my movie (Like I’d ever actually have that chance anyway).
sorry but deniro and pacino are still great.
how often are they given/offered anything now that really challenges them or their creative passions?
I will definitely agree about Pacino not really having done anything worthwhile in the last decade (I haven’t seen Merchant) but De Niro sneaks one or two in between his misses (Ronin, Hide and Seek, and IMHO Stardust – although in the latter, I could’ve done without him being a froo-froo). I do agree that their picks of movies hasn’t been that great, that they’re not putting “their best foot forward”, and that only they are themselves to blame for that, but what would one expect when their best ever films are well past 20 years old?
sweeet
I knew you’d like the article John :)
cheers
There will always be a place for De Niro and Pacino. Just because they’ve reached an age where their roles are limited now doesn’t mean they don’t have the ability to find one and completely make it their own again. These guys are the pinnacle of acting. It doesn’t go any higher.
(Type your comment here. Make sure you’ve read the commenting rules before doing so) Sorry to say this, but I agree, it is time for them both to put it up, teach volunteer, or something. Loved every minute of their past work. Now lets see what Mr. Eastwood can do in his GRAN TORINO, and JOLIE. I bet great.
I could never put a nail in their coffins. NEVER. If they wanted to stop taking paychecks and appear in a great movie, they could. Yes, their cred is damaged. Their name attached to a movie doesn’t mean what it used to, but these two are still more talented than most of the people working in Hollywood today.
You know, it is funny. I was just having a discussion like this the other day, but instead of actors it was musical acts. My bros-in-law and I had discussed how some musicians move their careers to another level by scoring movies, or the like (Danny Elfman & Stewart Copeland to name a couple) or others move in different directions (as evidenced by the Anvil Documentary that I am dying to see).
Some actors do this and successfully move to behind the camera (Clint Eastwood, and, to a lesser extent Peter Berg, who I happen to think is pretty good).
But overall some tend not to see the forest for the trees and allow someones earlier career to overshadow the fact that they have just not evolved as well as others have. Pacino and DeNiro are perfect examples of this. The last good thing I saw Pacino in was “People I Know” which I felt was a decidly un-Pacino role. The last good thing I saw DeNiro in? Phew. Well, “The Adventures of Rocky & Bullwinkle” aside it would probably have to be “Jackie Brown”.
That being said it is not that I don’t think they are capable, rather that what they have done as of late is not their best body of work by any means.
Hey James,
Oh for sure, there is no denying the impact and career they’ve had. No questions at all. This is just a sad commentary on where they’re at NOW.
i agree but they left a permanant mark on the industry especially al pacino his scarface movie was one of the best films in history
Well I haven’t really seen any of their shitty movies, so I still hope they do great in Righteous Kill…and well if it is like you say it is then I just have to settle for seeing Heat again or some of their movies in their glory days and wish they’d still be as good as they were…
Maybe they just woke up one day and though “Fuck it, i have nothing more to prove”
The 50 cent thing did it for me as well. I have to agree with you.
Though I really enjoyed the Score, that probably had more to do with Ed Norton and the story than anything DeNiro brought to the role.
What did Copolla say about these guys btw?