My stance on the issues of movie piracy and how the MPAA polices the digital world have long been established here on The Movie Blog. In coles notes form, my thoughts look something like this:
1) Pirating movies is wrong
There are people out there who put in huge amounts of effort and spends small (and large) fortunes in making movies. They deserve your $10 if you’re going to sit there and watch their film.
2) People who actually film the movies in theater or steal digital copies and put them on the internet should go to jail
I have no sympathy for the person who gets caught with a video recorder in a movie theater and gets 5 years in prison. You’re a thief, you knew what would happen if you got caught, and you got caught. Tough luck… if you drop the soap I’d suggest you just accept that it’s lost and not pick it up.
3) The MPAA are going after the wrong people
The real answer to movie piracy is NOT suing little Johnny Ballwhacker who downloaded a copy of “The Girl Next Door” in his bedroom last night. Taking them to court for $150,000 isn’t solving anything, and you’re just attacking your potential fan base. The real criminals are the ones filming the movies in theaters or physically stealing digital copies and releasing them. Focus on THESE people. Prosecute THESE people. Then you’ll see some results.
Anyway, I’m sure that my way of looking at it isn’t perfect, but it is what I believe.
Movie Blog reader WolfMarauder gave me the heads up on this little story making its way around. Apparently not only do the MPAA want to continue persecuting little kids, college students and parents… they don’t even want to have to have the burden of “proving” the people are guilty in order to sue them. The tech site Crunchgear gives us this:
The MPAA may have some explaining to do following remarks of one of its lawyers in the Jammie Thomas trial. The remark in question, as written by Marie. L. van Uitert:
“It is often very difficult, and in some cases, impossible, to provide such direct proof when confronting modern forms of copyright infringement, whether over P2P networks or otherwise; understandably, copyright infringers typically do not keep records of infringement”
In other words, the MPAA shouldn’t have to provide “direct proof”—it’s pesky!—when suing old ladies, dopey college kids and John and Jane Does for as much as $150,000 per copyright violation. How does that make sense, in human terms? Never mind the $150,000 per copyright violation—movie tickets are, what, $10 these days?—but the MPAA believes it should be able to extract such funds merely because, you know, it’s “difficult” to prove any wrongdoing? Stunning.
You would be forgiven for being confused by this statement. I mean after all, how on earth can ask that they be allowed to convict people “without proof”, because hey… getting proof is really difficult. Well… in criminal court you can’t… but in CIVIL court, you can do just about anything.
You see, in Criminal Court, in order to be convicted the prosecution needs to produce proof that shows your guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Beyond a reasonable doubt takes lots of evidence as applied by law. HOWEVER, in Civil court… where one party sues another… you don’t have to “prove” anything. The measuring stick is NOT based on Reasonable Doubt in civil cases, but rather on a balance of probability. All you have to do is convince the jury there is a 51% chance that the other party harmed you… and you win.
So you see… when the idiots at the MPAA want to sue little Johnny, they don’t have to PROVE he pirated the movie… they just have to convince a jury that there’s a good chance he may have. There is a BIG difference.
So the MPAA continues to use tactics of fear against the civilian population while letting the real criminals go unchecked. What a pack of idiots.
Most people who download movies using p2p are movie lovers. They find it easier to download rather than view by buying a platic coater / coffee mug platic thingy.
What stops most people downloading is the fear that the authorities might be watching. Dargens allows downloading without giving out ip address.
People should pay for movies but the studios could help as well by making it to purchase and watch movies online.
Daniel
Ya, the $150k per is ridiculous. If you go after the downloaders, hit them with a $30 per title fine. That way you get the sale and you can pad a little as a punishment. $150k is robbery and is a far worse crime than downloading. I download 10 movies, and I spend the rest of my life paying off $1.5 million? Right… Be realistic, MPAA, and you’ll get far more support.
The MPAA gets what it deserves. It has treated the viewing public like crap for the past 30 years with its technophobia and greed. They said that the VHS tape would be the end of the movie industry. They were wrong. Movie rentals now account for more revenue than box office tickets. Had the MPAA gotten its act together and sold movie downloads it would be fine. It didn’t get its act together. Now the genie is out of the bottle and it won’t go back in. Millions of people all over the world are already used to a system whereby they can download DVDs for free. The studios that do offer movie downloads have more limitations than the free illegal downloads. At this point it’s easier to steal than it is to pay so that’s what people are going to do. This is not to mention that every year the studios set a record for their profits. If anything downloading movies has led to more people “sampling” movies and then buying the DVD or viewing a crappy camcorder version and then going to the theatre. Had the studios and MPAA had any creativity they would have charged a nominal fee for the same service.
I don’t know what prison in Canada is like but here in the states 5 years is a long, long, long time. Its insane to get 5 years or any years for that matter just for videotaping a movie thats more than likely making a ton of money. Most people that go into prison for 5 years end up staying longer because they get into fights or even forced to kill people. So speak to someone who’s been in prison for 5 years and tell them about this bull crap MPAA law they might just pull out a shank on principal.
If they charged a decent price in the first place & synchronized the release dates then movie piracy would all but die out…
Over here in the UK a new Movie might cost anything up to £30 – 12 months later, it’s in the bargin bin for half that price – another 6 months later – guess what – a quarter of the price!!!
And don’t try telling me that they’re clearing stock and not making money on them by then – ’cause I just don’t believe it…
“The music industry is one where illegal downloading has been hit the hardest. It’s practically gone now. Virgin megastores are closing everywhere. Tower Records, Wherehouse are both closing nationwide. Record companies are going bankrupt.”
So, are they producing less music nowadays???
answer: Not really. So where is the problem. I know bands that got rich after some kids downloaded their music and created a real hype.
And compared to the movie-industries, are there less movies? Is de budget shrinking? Is the industry financially in trouble?
Answer: Eu..no, not really. They give kids with no directing skills 100 million dollar films to direct and bring out more blockbusters than we can dream of.
I agree it’s wrong for somebody to camcorder a movie at the local theatre, but let’s be honest. Compared to the multimilliondollar return at the box-office and dvd-sales, this can hardly be considered as a real problem. Who want to see a camcorder version anyway, where sound and image are total crap.
If they kept a democratic pricetag and synchronised the releasedates, pirating would fade away. We should sew MPAA for leaking B-movies out on the internet to be able to attack Little Johnny for $150’000. I don’t have proof, but I guess I don’t need any.
Donald,,, true story.
(Power of the internet).
Your gonna love this John!
I saw the trailer for the movie “This Film is not Yet Rated”.
In the trailer it shows the outside of the MPAA Los Angeles office.
I was shocked cause I know that building! The building is in the San Fernando Valley just west of the 405 fwy on Ventura Bvld. I allways wondered who was in that building because on the exterior gated walls there were mini tile-art pieces depicting famous movie scenes.
It all came together when I saw the trailer.
I’ve looked for the dvd in stores its tough to find. I might have to resort to Amazon. ;-p.
Here’s the kicker, I drove by that building about 2 weeks ago and all the tile-art was stripped off the gated walls and the building was up for lease.
The movie “This Film Is Not Yet Rated” drove the bastards out !!!!!!!! There gone seeking a new secret location. What a bunch of nazi scumbags.
Thanks Donald for reminding me of that, I totally forgot.
True story!!!
(Type your comment here. Make sure you’ve read the commenting rules before doing so)
If you haven’t seen the documentary THIS FILM IS NOT YET RATED, which chronicles how criminal the MPAA is to film makers, I strongly suggest you run out and get a copy.
Also, to my knowledge the MPAA is a private organization. They are not run by the government. They aren’t ‘charging’ anyone with anything. They can lobby (as they are in this case) that a government do something in their favor, but it is not the MPAA who is charging anyone. They can, like any private entity, press charges.
Nice post, John.
I’m with TheMovieVampire, the quote listed doesn’t actually say they think they don’t NEED proof, but I’m assuming that either there have been clarifying remarks or there is more to the quote somewhere.
I do agree with you that the consumer shouldn’t be prosecuted–and by consumer, I mean the person at the very end of the chain, the one downloading the pirated file; you’re right that by doing so, Big Entertainment (if I might steal a page from the anti-tobacco crowd’s book) is slowly alienating a large portion of their potential fan base. Instead, I think it would behoove B.E. to pour more resources into developing online movie rental platforms, such as those available from Netflix, to make renting a digital file more quickly and more easily.
It’s not that hard: follow the existing model of a certain time period in which content expires after the initial playback instance, then dedicate enough bandwidth to the platform to make sure the movie downloads FAST. I guarantee that the casual “pirated product” consumer will pay a couple of bucks to get a fast, easy download that includes the extras in DVD or Blu-Rya format rather than a low-quality .AVI file. Then you add the option to buy the product, less the rental price, if you enjoyed it, and you’ve just increased your online sales by a good percentage, I’ll bet.
With the advent of the digital age, of course it’s becoming more difficult to find proof of piracy! Big Entertainment should really learn to ride the wave; instead, they just keep trying to sue all the fish in the ocean.
That’s what I’m saying Darek, how do you know what it’s like if you haven’t tasted it?
You can put sugar coating over an entire product but if the inside tastes terrible then why buy it?
I enjoy a couple of things about this post. First of all, the market for films continues to grow and so does the potential profit. How many people in the US have purchased a movie called on VHS, then DVD and then Blu-Ray…a new standard will occur again in the future. Hopefully by then the license you purchase will allow additional content instead of continued “whoring” of content to the masses.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again 95% of studio movies make money, it just takes some longer than others to reap the profit.
A couple of examples from “FLOPS”: Dune 1984, at the time a “flop” and the most expensive film made. It’s production budget was $40M. It made 30M in domestic release. VHS, DVD, Cable, TV rights…can you see how it did make money?
Evan Almighty 2007, the most expensive comedy to make of all time, production budget of $175M. Made “only” $100M in it’s domestic run and $73M internationally.
Granted there are a few art house movies that are made that don’t care about money at all, such as Breakfast of Champions,
And complete busts like Monkeybone, Town and Country,
Don’t get me wrong, piracy is an issue, but it DOES NOT prevent the studios from profiting, their profit just isn’t maximized to it’s complete potential.
And DO NOT underestimate the product placement dollars coming in to these studios.
well Kelly if it tastes so bad why would you even want it if it’s free?
When I go to a bakery there are usually samples on the counter. If I take a sample and it tastes like shit why would I want to buy it?
I allways suspected Grand Moff Tarken was behind the MPAA, now it looks like the cats out of the bag….
Those rumors of his escape from the Death Star are true.
Damn !!!
*cue Darth Vader intro music*
This is ridiculous. Seriously, watching this whole spectacle is stupid. Never mind rights, they may or may not have taken my movie. To the Bat-Court!
This is all about money. It’s not about “art” or giving the director’s “credit”, it’s all about the money. Besides, getting movies on to your portable devices is difficult enough, I dont have the time to go out and buy the DVD and use the digital copy. It would become too expensive. And i agree with the “punish the pirates, not the downloaders” it doesnt make sense.
“The real answer to movie piracy is NOT suing little Johnny Ballwhacker who downloaded a copy of “The Girl Next Door” in his bedroom last night.
Anyone who downloads *that* film for the ‘puter shouldn’t be sued, just ashamed of themselves :)
All joking aside, if *anyone* does download a film off some torrent site.. Consider this:
1) Inferior quality.
2) No “extras”.
3) Depending on where you get them, watermarks.
4) No chapter stops/menus
If this is the kind of inferior quality that the masses crave, I don’t agree with it and I discourage it, but so be it. Those inferior copies should be destroyed, and yes, they should be fined even a small amount. I’ll even go five bucks a head.
No, I’m not joking. I’m damn serious.
When some asshole steals a stereo system, that is a crime. When that crook sells that stolen property and the people that buy those goods know it is stolen, they are also committing a crime and can be charged and/or fined. It is unfair -and sad- that the primary targets are the Johnny Ballwhackers of the nation, but considering that only a small fraction of these young punks are being arrested…
I’m sorry. I disagree. I think there should be a fine, even if it is a small amount. Yes, you heard me right. I stand by it. They should be fined even if it is for a small amount I mean, I would think that some of these “innocent bystanders” (ha ha ha) would be flipped by the Feds a dime a dozen. I’m sorry—I don’t see that. Either that, or “illegal downloading” isn’t raging as rampant as some might think.
But for those folks that are busted, how often did they go to the well? No, I’m sorry. They know what they are doing, or at some point, they know they have a clue. I repeat, give them at least a light punishment. Five, ten dollar fine, community service, something. And the punks that supply them with the download movies? Max fine and/or max sentence under the laws of the land.
I also agree with Vamp..I didn’t see in the quote anything about where the MPAA will “not need proof”, just that it is tough to get it. That’s the way I read it too.
I also think studios should lower prices on itunes as well. That would help a great deal. If I’m going to get a smaller picture or a movie I can only play on my computer, no chapter stops, no extras, zip. ten to fifteen dollars for new films might be fine, fve dollars or less for older films. If I want the DVD or Blu Ray I’ll buy it. I get the quality for more and/or let the film title depreciate until it comes down in price.
I know what I stated here will not be loved or endorsed by the int’friends, let alone you John. But I just have to disagree with you on the issue at hand.
“It is often very difficult, and in some cases, impossible, to provide such direct proof when confronting modern forms of copyright infringement, whether over P2P networks or otherwise; understandably, copyright infringers typically do not keep records of infringement”
Where in that quote do they say they don’t NEED proof. All they say is that it’s hard to get proof, and it is, it doesn’t say anything about what they think their legal burden is. Unless they said more than is being quoted, it sounds like Crunchgear is completely misrepresenting their message, a straw man fallacy.
And the MPAA shouldn’t punish anyone who bought the goddamn DVD and ripped it to their iPod. I bought the goddamn thing and I could do whatever I want with it.
Let’s hope the MPAA dosnt get there way. Bunch of nazis.
Going after viewers of pirated material is assinine.
Sure go after the camera-holders, but 5 years gimme a break. They should be fined up the ass but this is hardly worth jail-time.
The entertainment industry is doing just fine. Most of the pirating is done outside the US anyway.
The Music Industry is collapsing because they failed to jump on the power of the web and also have no clue about music anymore….
Nice post. I pretty much agree with everything you said.
BIGSAMPSON wrote:
“I have no sympathy for the person who gets caught with a video recorder in a movie theater and gets 5 years in prison.”
when u steal a $10 package of hamburger meat its a misdermeanor….why the fuck should i get 5 years for downloading a torrent on the internet that is bieng watched by the same goverment [. . .]
John was talking about people filming the movie IN the theater. If you read further, he writes that they should worry about the filmers, not the downloaders.
I disagree with you that downloaders shouldn’t be prosecuted. These people know what they are doing is wrong. They need to be punished. The people who download TV/movie/games/media need to be punished. With Ipods, and portable media players getting so popular, this widespread epidemic of illegal downloading will only get worse. The music industry is one where illegal downloading has been hit the hardest. It’s practically gone now. Virgin megastores are closing everywhere. Tower Records, Wherehouse are both closing nationwide. Record companies are going bankrupt.
pirating will never stop. no matter what. somewhere, somehow, the invisible hand of pirates will provide illegal content to anyone willing to take or buy the material.
it just happens to be really accessible, and really accessible. kudos for the great pirating blur of the internet. you are giving rich people out of touch with reality big headaches. yum.
Personally, I believe that movies should and can be cheaper, and then a portion of movie piracy will cease to be. I’m not saying it will all go away, but when you have the choice between buying the 2 disc I’m Not There from Wal Mart or downloading the dvd and watching it on your virtual drive, the choice is obvious. Between gas and everything else in this world’s price going up, entertainment shouldn’t be as expensive as it is, especially movies.
While I agree about people with Camcorders filming movies, I still think that people who deliberately download movies or who go overseas with the intention of buying “a box of 50 movies for $10” know that they are pirates and deserve a little punishment/discouragement.
After all, it hurts the pockets of legitimate buyers.
The only movies that should be downloadable via the internet are those which are not available in your location (or at all because the powers that be won’t release them). A good example being the “Star Wars Holiday Special”, though why anyone would want it is beyond me.