An interesting debate broke out in the comments section of The Audio Edition yesterday regarding the nature of “Spoilers”. The debate got me thinking and I thought I’d think out loud here (as I often do).
As some of you may know, yesterday on the show I mentioned that Captain Barbossa is indeed alive in the Pirates of the Caribbean movies and makes an appearance in Pirates of the Caribbean 2. The question is… was that a “spoiler”? The debate in the comments sections had some good thoughts on both sides.
So what is a “spoiler”? When does something stop being a spoiler? When is information not a spoiler? The Wikipedia defines a spoiler as:
A spoiler is a summary or description of a narrative (or part of a narrative) that relates plot elements not revealed early in the narrative itself. Moreover, because enjoyment of a narrative sometimes depends upon the dramatic tension and suspense which undergird it, this early revelation of plot elements can “spoil” the enjoyment that some consumers of the narrative would otherwise have experienced.
I “gave away” the fact that Barbossa shows up at the end of Pirates of the Caribbean 2. Was that a spoiler? Some people say yes, some say no. Reading through the debate, I tend to agree with what most people were saying… it was NOT a spoiler. Especially when you compare it to the definition above.
So then what is a spoiler? Is it giving ANYTHING away about ANY movie at ANY time? As one commenter brought up… is me saying “Darth Vader ends up being Luke Skywalkers father” a spoiler now? I mean, there are some people out there who haven’t seen any of the Star Wars movies… therefore it is possible I just ruined a major plot point of the whole saga for them just now. Be that as it may, I don’t think many people would suggest I just gave away a spoiler.
But, on the other hand, I have never once mentioned the final twist of Sixth Sense. That plot twist hinges the entire movie. To give away the ending would be to ruin the experience of the whole film.
The fact I let slip about Barbossa being alive wasn’t exactly a secret either. Pictures have been circulating with him on set for a while, he’s been listed at “Staring” in Pirates of the Caribbean 3 for ages on most movies sites including the IMDB… it’s been no secret that Barbossa is indeed alive.
Here’s something I found interesting too. Earlier, I posted one of those pictures showing Barbossa alive in Pirates 3…. and yet…. no one suggested anything about that being a spoiler. But later I repeated the obvious in The Audio Edition… and BOOM! It’s a spoiler?
I’m usually very careful around The Movie Blog with spoilers. I’ll even edit comments left by other people (if I notice them) that give spoilers away. So was that a spoiler that I let slip yesterday? That’s not a rhetorical question either… I’m curious about your opinion on this.
To me, a spoiler is a fact whose knowledge influences how you understand and view a part of, or the whole of a movie. it is also something that is not already widely known and that the information is not already readily available all over the place.
To me, Pirates of the Caribbean had been out of theaters for ages, was already seen by most human beings on the planet, the point in question was not a plot point that gave anything of the movie away, and due to the fact that Geoffrey Rush was listed as in the new movie ages ago, and his images have been appearing all over the web in the new film… this incident doesn’t quality as a “spoiler”.
However… I could be wrong. What do you think? was this Barbossa thing a spoiler? And an even bigger question is how do you define what spoiler is?
Hey folks, John here.
This has been a great discussion in here, but we’re approaching the point where we’re all just repeating ourselves now, so I think it’s time to shut this one down. Good points raised by all.
As always, I’m right. :)
Let’s move on to our next discussion… Who is the world’s best lover? John Campea in the summer… or John Campea in the winter? Discuss.
No Jay, that’s not your answer right there.
By your logic, if even one person came in this thread who hasn’t seen Empire, and saw that Darth Vader is Luke’s dad, they it’s a spoiler. That makes no sense to anyone.
By your logic, if this site said anything about any movie that’s not in a commercial, then that’s a spoiler. Makes no sense.
There’s your answer right there.
Nautica had not seen the movie before John’s comments and he thinks it IS a spoiler.
Which just proves the point that if you havent seen the movie… it is a spoiler. It spoils the surprise at the end of the movie. I was surprised, Drew was surprised and John was surprised, but guess what. Thanks to John’s comments, Nautica doesnt get to experience that feeling. Oh well… too bad for him, right? Because if he really cared then he would have seen it already. And what right does he have to think it’s a spoiler since its just a tacked on cameo of a guy that was thought to be dead in a movie realeased over 6 months ago. Who cares about that, right? A dead guy coming back to life. That has no signifigance what-so-ever, right?
It’s amazing to me that all of you would have thought it was a spoiler if you heard about the exact circumstances of Barbossa’s return before you saw the movie and yet it somehow cant be considered a spoiler now to people who havent seen it. Even though nautica, who hasnt seen the movie, thinks it’s a spoiler.
i think saying “Rush showing up didn’t change, effect, influence or give extra meaning to a single thing in the film.” is very weak! no question it spoiled the surprise of the ending. sure i’ve seen his pic for part 3, but i just assumed – oh they’re putting him back in part 3 somehow. maybe that’s not even the same character, could be his twin brother etc. having not seen part 2 yet, that’s what i thought when i saw the pics. so it’s again, to people who have not seen the movie, it’s definitely a spoiler. like shane said, more people will watch movies on dvds these days than in theatres, so at least waiting til after the dvd release makes total sense.
Spoiler is an objective term anyway. What may spoil a movie for me, might just get you more interested to see it. I dont think you can realy define it with a broad stroke, thus it is more up to you to make sure you dont expose yourself to potential spoilers, that or wear a big sign that says “dont say this or that about a movie or it’ll be spoiled!”
I dont think John spoiled anything except for a clue about the sequel. it isnt a “Vader is Lukes dad” spoiler it would be akin to something like at the end of Batman Begins seeing the Joker card. It doesnt affect the movie but points toward the story of the sequel. It is more of a spoiler for the sequel, not the movie itself. If anyone hasnt seen begins yet and you told them, the Joker is in the sequel, did you really spoil anything for them as far as Batman begins is concerned? That type of an ending is more of a really early teaser trailer for the next one. I think the same applies here for POTC 3.
We’ve moved on. Who cares what John said or the fraking pirates? What I want to know now is what is the definition of a spoiler. I already posted what the def of a spolier is based on readers’ comments here. Is it correct or incorrect?
For the main Wiki definition, I think it is far too vague and doesn’t delve into specifics about time and or other pieces of vital info.
**SPOILERS SPOILERS** *********************
********************************************
I would like to take the time and spoil a bunch of movies:
Star Wars – Vader is Luke’s father
*The Crying Game – She’s a MAN, baby!
*The Usual Suspects – Verbal(Spacey) is Kaiser Soze or a coffe cup manufacturer.
*The Sixth Sense – Haley Joel Osmet’s career is dead.
*Into the Blue – This film sucks
*The Star Wars Prequel Trilogy – Jar Jar doesnt die. (Boooo!)
*Borat – He’s not a real person!
*The Lord of the Rings – it ISN’T Michael Flatley
*Planet of the Ape – mokeys can’t really talk.
And one TV show…
*Babylon 5 – isnt NEARLY as good as Darren Conley thinks it is!!!!!
********** END SPOILERS ******************
In perusing this debate very quickly, I think the basic fact remains that if you are someone who frequents sites like this, then you are putting yourself at risk of some kind of spoilers regardless. To be mad that you heard something you didnt want to when listening to the Audio Edition is a little silly. Its not like you turned on 60 minutes and they blew the whole movie the day it got released without warning. John from the movie blog talked about the end of a movie that has been out for 6 months on his podcast. Yeah maybe he spoiled it for a couple of people who were such big fans that they waited till the dvd to see it, if they really were that big into it they should have known better.
And by the way, you can find my complete review of the film here:
Nevermind. Why can’t I post a link? Everytime I try it gives me a “build error” code or something.
Fair enough. If that’s what you think, great.
That’s what I’m trying to get to the bottom of here. Therefore, my definition a couple of posts up is fairly accurate to what a spoiler is then?
Is it fair to say then, that if any of the 3 out of 4 points listed above are true, then it cannot be considered a spoiler? It can’t be just one of the points. It must be a combination of at least 3 of them? 2 of them? All four? Where is the line drawn?
Hey Drebacca,
You said:
“2 of those 3 things don’t apply anymore to anyone who hasn’t seen the film and listened to your podcast”
By that logic, as previously mentioned elsewhere, I can never talk about how Luke is Darth Vader’s son, or that the wicked witch gets melted by water… because hey… I just ruined it for those people (no matter how few of them there are out there) who haven’t seen Star Wars or The Wizard of Oz yet.
So yes, for a movie website, that talks about movies, I beleive there are certain criteria where by something ceases to be an off limits spoilers. You may care to debate what that criteria may be, but “Luke, I am your father” at some point becomes fair game to discuss (and Barbossa’s appearance at the end of POTC 2 isn’t even in the same league as that).
Non-plot point, no effect on story, already finished its run in theaters and is already public knownledge that the character returns… I think that fairly falls under that “fair game” category.
I don’t think I ever mentioned that it changed anything about the plot or storyline. I never suggested any such thing.
What I said, was that it changed my idea of how good the film was (and that’s TOTALLY my opinion of course).
But as you said, “it was a great little stunt, I didn’t see it coming and it was wonderful.”
2 of those 3 things don’t apply anymore to anyone who hasn’t seen the film and listened to your podcast.
THIS POST WAS MADE TO DEFINE WHAT A SPOILER IS. Based on comments above, I think this is a pretty fair assessment of what themovieblog readers think qualifies as a spoiler and what does not (in any example; not just POTC 2)…
DEFINITIONS:
A SPOILER IS:
The divulgance of any piece of narrative that has significant ramifications regarding the plot of a film, any time within six months of the initial theatrical release of said film.
THIS PIECE OF INFORMATION CANNOT BE A SPOILER IF:
1) The information divulged has nothing to do with the plot or story arc.
2) The information divulged is readily available at several other sources or locations.
3) The information has been widely known (or available) for more than 6 months. Whether or not the info is still in theaters or has or hasn’t been released on DVD yet is irrelevant.
4) The information is known by many (an undetermined number of) people; which can be determined by box office receipts.
NOW, the question is: does it have to be ANY ONE of these things, or does it have to be a combination of all these things or just one or two points?
Hey Drewbacca,
You’re kidding right? You let a final moment cameo that had nothing to do with the rest of the film influence your review of the rest of the 2+ hours of the film… when it had nothing to do with the rest of the film? Really? Are you being serious?
For the record, I never said his appearance was “pointless” or “needless”. What I did say (quite correctly) is that nothing, not one thing, not one line, not one plot point, NOTHING would have been effected in the rest of POTC 2 if you cut that last scene with Rush out.
You can’t debate that. You can’t say “Oooohhh… Rush showing up at the end explains (such and such part of the movie)”. You can’t say “Oooohhh… with Rush showing up at the end now I understand the part of the movie where (insert part here).
It was a great little stunt to pull at the end, and I didn’t see it coming, and it was wonderful… but it had nothing to do with the rest of the film at all. That’s no up for debate, it’s fact.
It’s like Empire Strikes Back having a differne ending. You see Luke and Leia standing on the Medical ship… the camera pulls out into space… and then SUDDENLY… if cuts to Brad Pitt standing next to Vader giving him a high five. Yes, that would have been surpirsing… but it wouldn’t have any bearing on anything to do with the rest of the film.
“Rush showing up didn’t change, effect, influence or give extra meaning to a single thing in the film.”
I know you don’t believe that John. Did it give away a major plot point? No. But it did change the overall mood to the movie. I was all set to give a fairly negative review of the film. Then when that happened, my whole perception of the movie changed. Suddenly I was excited and thought, “Wow, that was awesome. I DIDN’T SEE THAT COMING!” So to say this part of the film is pointless and needless is very debatable I think. You’ve said so yourself on more than one occassion.
Hey Movie Replicas,
You said:
“would you finish a book reading a book, if someone told you how it ended?”
The problem is that your example doesn’t apply. Generally speaking… the “end of the book” referes to giving away the “who done it”, thus taking away your purpose for reading it. The Geoffrey Rush cameo at the end of Pirates doesn’t apply. It was a throw on, a totally and 100% irrelevent to the rest of the story up to that point. If spoiled nothing of the story or the mystery or the plot.
You take out that last minute with the Rush appearance… and you still have 100% the exact same movie, because Rush showing up didn’t change, effect, influence or give extra menaing to a single thing in the film.
So no, imho, the “end of the book” analogy doesn’t apply.
Cheers!
And yes, I agree with Jim Walker, this is an excellent debate.
The funny thing was that I was on the way to buy the movie when I heard the “spoiler”.
I don’t think that because tons of people saw it in the theaters should dictate whether or not info should be given. Chances are there are many who are waiting for dvd to see it. Not everyone is able to go to the movies as often as they would like due to whatever reasons. What’s the proper time to allow? Don’t know. If someone hasn’t seen The Sixth Sense, I’m not going to reveal the ending just because they should have seen it by now. I’m not going to take that away from them.
But, I’ve been thinking about this and I think that those who listen to the Audio Edition and read the movie blog know they risk hearing or reading such info, because that’s what you guys do, talk movies.
Drew (may I call you Drew?), Tricia is absolutley right. And when you say “the return of a major character” you’re conveinietly forgetting to mention that the fact this character is back is now public knowledge because of all the reasons that have been mentioned here 100 times.
It would have been a “spoiler” if john had
* Mentioned it when the movie was still in theaters
* Said it before pics hit the web, tv interviews were done and casting lists were publically listed.
* If it was a part of the movie that effected anything at all with the rest of the movie
Reading over your previous comments again, I’ve got to ask, when did you make up this rule that you have to wait until the DVD comes out? That’s stupid. This is a movie site. They talk about movies here. They never mention things here that ruin the film or gives away key plot stuff.
When a movie is done it’s theatrical run, it’s ok to talk about stuff that doesn’t ruing the film or give away key elements. The Barbossa appearance does neither of those things.
A damn good movie debate. Many good points have been raised.
I think a problem you will have is that “spoiler” can have a different meaning to different people. Some people just want the end of the movie ruined, some people dont want to hear ANYTHING about a film.
I told a friend about one of the jokes in the Borat film and he got a little miffed, saying that i “spoiled” that scene for him. Some people may not even want to KNOW that a certain character is in the film if they havent seen it yet. If someone is talking about “The Empire Strikes Back” and simply says “Han Solo is awesome in that movie”… does that “SPOIL” the original “Star Wars” for some people? Maybe? They know that Han Solo LIVES through the whole first film, so maybe that dimishes the tension a little for some people.
I think it is key to simply be as careful and courteous as possible when discussing films, especially in an open forum. Even wen you think what you might say is ‘innocent’, it may not be to all people. Just like an opinion, views may differ, even ones that SEEM obvious. ((The OPINION: ‘The world would be a better place without war.’ may be believed by MOST of humanity, but i am sure there are some that would disagree. ))
Just be mindful, and respectful to the best of your ability… and if you get “Spoiled”, try to look at it from the “Spoiler’s” perspective: if you feel they acted within reason, let it go… if you feel they were callous with their words, feel free to politely let them know.
Now… lets all sing Kumbaya…
if you are going to discuss a movie with another person, why don’t you just use some courtesy and ask them, “hey, have you seen this movie? I don’t want to spoil anything for you.”, or ” are you going to see the movie, would it spoil it for you if i told you something about it?”
if a movie is being discussed in a blog or forum, same rules apply (imo), use the “spoiler alert”. there are movie loving people out there that don’t like spoilers.
telling them trivial things that isn’t important to the movie is not a spoiler like, drinking water????? telling major plots, things that were said and action scenes in the movie, that is a spoiler. anything that would be no surprise to the movie-goer.
would you finish a book reading a book, if someone told you how it ended?
The real fact of the matter is that if you’re afraid of spoilers, stay the hell away from movie news sites. Period.
“By the way some of you define a spoiler, if I told you at one point in the movie Captain Jack drinks a glass of water you’d be jumping up and down yelling “SPOILER SPOILER.”
TRICIA, THIS IS RIDICULOUS. You’re honestly telling me that the return of a major character from a previous film that we all thought was dead is equivalent to Sparrow drinking a glass of water? I still ask, if it was no big deal, how come John mentioned how amazing the ending was severl times (“a magnificent ending” was the actual quote)?
And if we were talking about “The Godlen Child,” I would say yes; the main character drinking a glass of water would be a spoiler ;)
Why would Willie Nelson as a cowboy appear in Pirates of the Caribbean? I thought he died in Gary Busey’s arms?
By the way some of you define a spoiler, if I told you at one point in the movie Captain Jack drinks a glass of water you’d be jumping up and down yelling “SPOILER SPOILER”.
No, it wasn’t a spoiler. Not even a little bit. I’m amazed at the lack of common sense here.
I agree with drewbacca too :)
also, this is a website right? you never know who is going to be reading what you write so… be careful next time.
anyway great site john :D
is it a spoiler? well yes, because you s-p-o-i-l the cliffhanger of a the film
the saga hasn’t finished yet, the third part is coming next year, what i mean is that it is too recent to give that type of info, and the example you gave about the star wars film, come on that was 30 years ago, and come to think about it is in fact a spoiler to give out the relationship between darth and luke.
is it relative? yes it is, if i haven’t seen the movie of course you ruin the film, and the whole saga.
JUST TAKE A LOOK AT WIKIPEDIA, IF YOU TYPE THE NAME OF ANY FILM YOU SEE A TAG THAT WARNS YOU THAT SPOILERS MIGHT BE CONTAINED ON THE SUMMARY OF THE FILM, AND NO MATTER HOW OLD THE FILM IS, YOU GET THE WARNING.
Hey Godfather,
Ahhhhh…. but what if I said Soudwave was in it, 6 months after the movie was in theaters?
lol
The definition might seem to not cover enough of what a spoiler is. I personally think that ANYTHING you say about the movie spoils it, one way or another, and, in most cases, the trailers do the same thing.
There’s only one way to ever please everyone, and that’s to not say anything at all. But then, what fun is that? Movie sites would suck! :D
John, I’d say that you walk a fine line, and don’t be too cautious what to say or not say. All you can do is try and not give away TOO much info that may ruin the experience of the movie. You’re generally pretty good at not giving that much away, so keep the discussion as you see fit. If you feel that you may be divulging too much, consider whether or not it affects an outcome. Will people not go see the film because you said someone was in it, or the fact that you said something like “OMG! The end of the movie is so AWESOME! I wasn’t expecting that at all!” I think the latter is the more evil way of talking about a movie, because it leads to a person not paying attention, anticipating the ending.
In regards to POC3, that pic you posted will probably have something to do with the movie release poster anyways, so wouldn’t fret it.
Now, if someone says that Soundwave appears in TF next summer, and ruins that surprise, asses are gonna be whopped!!! LOL
ok
Drebacca, i haven’t yet read your entire last comment yet, but I had to ask. So you’re saying if I don’t agree with you on this, then I’m a “lapdog”? Ok, sure, whatever.
Jacob-B,
First of all, I’m not debating what John C said. I’m debating all the lapdogs here, who by the way have seen the movie, and their statements.
Second, each of your rebuttals ends with, “Is the revealing of Barbossa a spoiler?” In which you say, each time, “No.” So essentially every response you give is just your opinion (not a fact) based on the fact that you’ve seen it and it doesn’t matter to you that John said it (or you don’t think it’s important to the enjoyment of the movie).
Third, all I did was reiterate what others have said. That’s all. They are not stretches. In fact, here are the direct quotes. You can either agree or disagree with some, all or none of them. I’ll back up each statement I made by copying and pasting various comments. Here we go….
1) The fact that Barbossa is revealed as not being dead…would not have made any difference to the plot or anyone watching.
KRINTINA QUOTE- “Capt. Barbossa thing wasn’t even a plot point. It was a quick pointless cameo just for marketing sake at the end with no point.”
SEAN QUOTE- “Gave nothing of the plot away and effected[sic] nothing of the film.”
2) ANY movie that had its release date more than 6 months ago is fair game to talk about anything you want to say about it. If someone hears the ending, it is their own damn fault. This would include anything from “Citizen Kane” to “Miami Vice.”
SEAN QUOTE- “Giving away a nothing point 6 months after the fact when it’s already all over the place is not a spoiler.”
ALFIE QUOTE- “it isn’t a spoiler now. surely not…released months and months ago”
SIMICK QUOTE- “the movie’s been out for ages…so no big deal”
BILLY QUOTE- “When the movie drops out of the top ten at the theater you can give anything away you want.”
DEVON QUOTE (from AE comment section)- “I’d say spoilers are okay once a movie is out of theaters.”
3) Because this is a movie website, you should expect there to be spoilers of all kinds (one person above actually said he WANTS spoilers).
EAGLEWING QUOTE- “You go to movie websites…you will have movies spoiled for you…that’s just the way it is. Don’t want that to happen? Don’t go to movie sites. I naturally assume news on a movie site will include spoilers at some point…”
ANONYMOUSBRAIN QUOTE- “This site is about telling us MORE about movies including movie the plot, the characters, the plot twists, and sometimes the endings… I don’t care if the movie hasn’t come out yet, just came out, or has been out for years. I come to The Movie Blog to discuss/listen/read about movies and everything that comes with them…’spoilers’ and all.”
EAGLEWING (again) QUOTE- “I don’t get offended if I go to a movie site and read a spoiler. I fully expect it.”
4) The movie is not in theaters anymore (which is incorrect), therefore you can say anything you want about it to anyone.
BILLY (again) QUOTE- “When the movie drops out of the top ten at the theater you can give anything away you want.”
JOHN CAMPEA QUOTE- “Pirates of the Caribbean had been out of theaters for ages… this incident doesn’t quality as a “spoiler”.
SARAH QUOTE- “I generally think that if a movie is released, but no longer playing in theaters, then giving away little tid bits are not spoilers.”
JARRED QUOTE- “it’s a no brainer that the barbossa thing wasn’t a spoiler. Maybe while it was in theaters, but obviously not at this point.”
So what everyone is saying here with this argument, is that anyone can freely post the ending (or any part) to all of these movies anywhere I want to because they are not in theaters anymore: Xmen 3, Thank U 4 Smoking, Break-up, Slither, Saw, Saw II, MI:3, DaVinci Code, Scoop, See No Evil, POTC, Miami Vice, Pulse, Lady in the Water, Little Miss Sunshine, The Descent, The Black Dahlia, Snakes…Plane, Covenant, Crank, Illusionist…. and anything else in the last 100 years.
5) LOTS of people saw the film (millions), therefore if you didn’t see it, you’re lazy and had your chance. Tough.
JOHN CAMPEA QUOTE- “was already seen by most human beings on the planet… this incident doesn’t quality as a “spoiler”.
SEAN QUOTE- “Most people saw it already… so no.”
ANONYMOUSBRAIN QUOTE- “I expect to discuss MOVIES and I don’t want to wait till everyone and their mama has seen it before I can talk about it.”
JARRED QUOTE (from AE comment section)- “Oh come on Drewbacca. Pirates made over $1 billion at the theaters. Show me someone who hasn’t seen it, or heard about the ending. I dare ya.”
– – ummm, how about the majority of the population?
JACOB-B QUOTE- “the vast majority of people who wanted to see it, have indeed seen it. Therefore, it’s safe to talk about non-important, non-relevant, non-story changing incidents in the film.”
– – How can you say it’s non relevant? I refer you to point #1. Also, you only say that because you’ve seen it; others would disagree.
6) It doesn’t matter how many people think it IS a spoiler, it isn’t.
Your response is a leap in logic Jacob-B. You are essentailly saying that wispy, treycranson, nautica, drewbacca, mason, and jay don’t matter (because they think it IS a spoiler). This is of course incorrect. It’s actually the people who HAVE seen it that don’t matter. Those that have seen it are the ones whose opinion on spoilers IN THIS CASE don’t matter.
7) The fact that it isn’t released on DVD yet means nothing. No one waits for the DVD anyway. Anyone who cares already saw it in the theater.
– – this kind of goes back to #2 and #4 but check these:
EAGLE WING QUOTE- “I’ve always been of the opinion that you wait until after it’s been through theatres and available on DVD for a while before making any reveals.”
NAUTICA (from AE comments): “Being one who haven’t[sic] seen the movie yet and was planning to pick up the dvd today, and from the sound of the “spoiler” I would’ve enjoyed it.”
8) Because there are pictures of Barbossa in part 3 on other sites (and this one) around the net, this isn’t a spoiler.
– – Jacob-B, WTF? I’ll use my “Lost” example again. It’s ALL OVER the internet, TV interviews galore, commercials every ten minutes, magazines on every newsstand and people talking about it and posting very damning pictures all over the net. But still, if I was listening to the radio (or a podcast) and out of the blue they just said, “HOLY SHIT! I CAN’T BELIEVE SAWYER GOT EATEN BY A SHARK LAST NIGHT!” I would be over the top upset about that. So just because spoilers are available everywhere, doesn’t mean it’s okay to spout them off non-chalantly whenever you choose. ESPECIALLY when you know damn well there are people listening who haven’t seen it. And Again, you end your rebuttal with your initial point in which you just repeat yourself that YOU don’t think it’s a spoiler.
LET ME SAY THIS AGAIN,
I don’t really care that John said this. It’s not that big of a deal. It was (or wasn’t in some people’s mind) a slip-up or mistake. I just condemn those that think it’s okay to give away anything they want because it’s been a couple of months. I leave you now with the most assinine (sp?) comment on this entire thread:
“Let’s say I said right now Barbossa is alive to a friend of mine and he freaks out because he didn’t see Pirates 2 yet. Well I spoiled it for him but I belive[sic] I have the right to discuss the ending because everyone who has an intrest[sic] in Priates 2 should have seen it by now; so if someone freaks out you spoiled the Barbossa ending, thats not your fault, it’s theres[sic] for not seeing it. If someone is so passionate about Pirates then they should have seen it. If I spoiled the Barbossa ending for someone right now I would day ‘Well you must have not been so intrested[sic] in seeing Pirates so much because mostly everyone who was intrested[sic] in seeing it has seen it already’.”
-Wolf
GOOD NIGHT. Enough of this shit. It ain’t worth it. ALTHOUGH I DEFINITELY LOOK FORWARD TO THURS’s AUDIO EDITION TO HEAR ABOUT THIS.
Darren says – “Strange how we all know the true indenity of one Keyser Soze, but no one ever blurts it out.”
Yeah, cause the key secret of Usual Suspects that would ruin the whole movie for most people is the exact same thing as a frivalous quick appearance by a charcter just before the credits role that effects nothing else in the movie. Yup, the exact same thing.
OMG! Talk about much ado about nothing. Got the dvd and saw the stupid thing today. Who the fuck cares about Capt. Barbie showing up at the end? That wasn’t a bloody spoiler. Geeezzzz people. The way you people are talking you’d think he said the heart wasn’t in the jar. Oppss, should I not have said that?
Strange how we all know the true indenity of one Keyser Soze, but no one ever blurts it out.
And if it had no point in the story, why not save it for the beginning of the third movie?
I’ll tell ya why, because it added dramatic weight and tension to the ending of the movie. If a cameo at the end adds suspense and surprise and builds tension and excitement for the next one then it does have it’s place in the movie as a whole. It is more than just a meaningless actor playing a meaningless role for a meaningless tacked-on ending to this portion of the narrative. It had weight and substance.
“No one is suggesting revealing endings”
… except for the fact that that’s exactly what you are suggesting.
Barbossa’s return is the surprise ending of POTC2.
Right?
So if you reveal that you are in essence revealing the ending of the movie.
Right?
It would have been a surprise to someone who hasnt seen the movie. That element of surprise has been taken away. No matter how many other ways they could have pieced the possibility of this cameo together, it’s still a spoiler. It’s not a major one by any stretch of the imagination but it’s still a spoiler. Knowing in advance takes away the “gasp” factor of seeing Barbossa walk through that door. That, my friends, is taking away some of “the enjoyment that some consumers of the narrative would otherwise have experienced”.
Drewbacca,
I have seen the movie and I still think it’s a spoiler.
This is officially my favorite movie-related debate on themovieblog that I’ve participated in.
Here’s what I think is interesting; take what you want from it:
All the people who have NOT seen the film, say it IS a spoiler. Everyone who HAS seen the film, say it ISN’T a spoiler (except me).
I think that’s pretty interesting.
Rodney,
Why dont you go (comment edited) yourself :P
But seriously folks…
I love The Movie Blog. I love this site. It’s the only one I post at. (I know what you’re saying… “Dont do us any favors”)
but my point is, this is people having a discussion. People who have differing ideas about what constitutes a spoiler.
Was the surprise “spoiled”?
Yes… yes it was.
That fact is undeniable.
Did it ruin the movie?
No, but the surprise was still spoiled.
Hence the term… spoiler.
The fact that it is a spoiler is contained within the very definition that John posted –
Barbossa’s cameo wasnt revealed early in the narrative (and yes, Barbossa’s return was a plot element. The relative size of the plot element is inconsequential)
It says “or PART of a narrative”. Nowhere in that definition does it say what part of the narrative, only that it could be “PART” of a narrative. Barbossa’s return at the end constitutes part of the narrative.
Knowing about it beforehand ruins any surprising dramatic element that a consumer would have otherwise experienced.
That says spoiler to me.
Also a little of Wiki that John left out –
“People who “spoil” may argue that:
people don’t need to read the spoilers that they reveal (even though most of them are obviously accidental)
a reasonable amount of time has elapsed since the first emergence of the work for those truly interested to have completed it
the work is so old, important, or omnipresent that it can be expected that a majority of people have already been exposed to it”
Just so you all know… Wiki knew your excuses before you gave them.
Ok, time to chime in here.
Is what John said a spoiler? By literal definition: NO. By the spirit of the term: Maybe.
Drewbacca seems to be talking in circles and twisting meanings (no offense, I don’t know you, just letting you know how your comments look to this point).
Let me address Drewbacca’s points a few comments above:
1) Barbossa was already revealved as being alive from the fact that he is in the third movie at all. Therefore, John revealing him alive in the second film is moot and irrelevant. There is no argument to be had here. As already mention elsewhere in this thread, pictures, casting lists, and tv interviews all already revealed Barbossa as alive, so John saying he’s alive in #2 is not a spoiler in any sense at all.
2) “ANY movie that had its release date more than 6 months ago is fair game to talk about anything you want to say about it.” This is a ridiculous statement. No one in this thread has ever suggested talking about “anything you want”. You are stretching things here. No one is suggesting revealing endings, plot twists or major story developments. The issue at hand is a (as correctly stated earlier) cameo in a film that was out last summer that had nothing to do with the story. Once again Drebacca, you’re stretching things to suit your argument.
3) Once again, you’re taking your argument off point. John never suggested it’s ok to give spoilers. The issue at had is the question if the Barbossa cameo is a spoiler or not? The answer is clearly not.
4) “The movie is not in theaters anymore (which is incorrect), therefore you can say anything you want about it to anyone” Once again, you’re stretching. Dead Man’s is out of theaters. Just because you can find it on a couple of dollar screens means nothing. Also, the issue at hand is not “saying anything you want about it to anyone”. The issue is the Barbossa cameo and is it a spoiler. The answer is no.
5) Once again, you’re stretching. The point was not “you had your chance”. The point is, the film had it’s full and lengthy theatrical run, the vast majority of people who wanted to see it, have indeed seen it. Therefore, it’s safe to talk about non-important, non-relevant, non-story changing incidents in the film. Once again, the only issue here is the Barbossa cameo and was it a spoiler. The answer is no.
6) “It doesn’t matter how many people think it IS a spoiler, it isn’t.” This is nonsense circular reasoning. The same thing could be said in reverse of your argument: “It doesn’t matter how many people think it IS NOT a spoiler, it is”.
7) Since when has the DVD release date become the defacto “all clear” for talking about minor points in movies? No sir, the fact that it hasn’t come out on video doesn’t mean anything. But once again you’re stretching. This isn’t about giving the movie away, it’s about the Barbossa cameo and is it a spoiler. The answer is no.
8) “Because there are pictures of Barbossa in part 3 on other sites (and this one) around the net, this isn’t a spoiler.” In essence yes. But once again you’re stretching. It’s more than just pictures. TV interviews (at least one that I know of), official cast listings and more. These things all establish very clearly that Barbossa is in Pirates 3. Thus, mentioning the cameo is Pirates 2 becomes a moot point. Is mentioning the Barbossa cameo a spoiler? Obviously, no.
All due respect to Drewbacca and kudos for expressing your opinions so well on the matter. I just happen to think you’re conclusions are wrong.
Well when you said {comment edited} about the Fantastic Four movie, it spoiled it for me. Especially when you {comment edited}. WHy dont you just tell people that {comment edited} for crying out loud!
So if {comment edited} doesnt count as a spoiler, then I dont know what does.
So for all the efforts you make to keep the Movie Blog, I say all those whiners can go {comment edited}
;)
I beg to differ, at the official site for “Pirates,” I found out that Janine gets fucked in the ass AND in her mouth at the same time; all the while, Long Dong Silver is hot on her tail. How can I watch the movie now? The entire plot about the hidden “chest” and pirate’s “booty” is completely ruined.
Sorry if I just spoiled it for everyone else.
no offense taken jay, i am a “he”. nautica is a name i saw on a porn site – at least porn movie sites never reveal spoilers! ha i kid john!
More wisdom. Thanks Simick.
Barbossa being alive doesn’t really have anything to do with any major plot twist or anything, plus, like John said, the movie’s been out for ages. If you haven’t seen it by now, tough. Plus pictures of him were even posted on here, so no big deal.
Nautica is the perfect example.
He (or she, no offense, I cant tell from nautica) had not seen the movie and had no prior knowledge of Barbossa’s reveal at the end of the flick and has now been cheated out of that surprise element.
Will the movie be ruined? No, but that’s not the question.
Was it a major plot point? No, but that’s not the question either.
Was it basically a cameo surprise at the end? Yes, but again, that’s not the point.
The point is it was a surprise to most of us. Like Drew said, If someone would have told him this before he saw the movie then there would be no question as to whether or not he would have considered it a spoiler. He said himself that he was surprised by the ending with Barbossa and loved it. Well guess what? You took that feeling away from nautica. You spoiled it for him (or her, sorry, I just dont know. Dont be offended).
The fact of the matter is you spoiled the surprise ending for people who havent already seen the movie. There is no arguing over this fact.
It doesnt matter how long it’s been out.
It doesnt matter how many millions it’s made so far.
If you havent seen the movie yet, guess what? The surprise reveal at the end of the movie has just been spoiled.
Is your whole movie going experience ruined because of this? No. Probably not, but the reveal at the end was. The element of enjoyment based on the unexpected reveal of Barbossa at the end has been taken away from you. That constitutes a spoiler in my book.
What I’m hearing is a lot of people saying it would have been a spoiler months ago or before it’s release. Why would it have been classified as a spoiler then and not now? The reason is because it would have come before you saw the movie and would have ruined the surprise at the end. That’s the reason it’s still a spoiler to people who have yet to see it.
If John had said this a year ago there would have been no discussion about whether or not is was a spoiler. I think a lot of people are finding it hard to put themselves in the shoes of someone who hasnt seen it yet. If you would have thought it was a spoiler before you saw it then it is still a spoiler to the people who havent.
jay has nailed the definition of spoiler in my view! spoiled or not, i’m all psyched now and can’t wait to watch the dvd and get to this infamous scene!
jay has nailed the definition of spoiler in my view! spoiled or not, i’m all psyched now and can’t wait to watch the dvd and get to this infamous scene!
SO HERE ARE THE TALKING POINT REASONS THAT THIS IS NOT A SPOILER
(based on comments above so far):
1) The fact that Barbossa is revealed as not being dead (when we all thought we was) means nothing to the story or the enjoyment of the film. It could have been removed from the film entirely and it would not have made any difference to the plot or anyone watching.
2) ANY movie that had its release date more than 6 months ago is fair game to talk about anything you want to say about it. If someone hears the ending, it is their own damn fault. This would include anything from “Citizen Kane” to “Miami Vice.”
3) Because this is a movie website, you should expect there to be spoilers of all kinds (one person above actually said he WANTS spoilers).
4) The movie is not in theaters anymore (which is incorrect), therefore you can say anything you want about it to anyone.
5) LOTS of people saw the film (millions), therefore if you didn’t see it, you’re lazy and had your chance. Tough.
6) It doesn’t matter how many people think it IS a spoiler, it isn’t.
7) The fact that it isn’t released on DVD yet means nothing. No one waits for the DVD anyway. Anyone who cares already saw it in the theater.
8) Because there are pictures of Barbossa in part 3 on other sites (and this one) around the net, this isn’t a spoiler.
Did I miss anything? Or am I wrong about any of the statements above? I just want to be clear.
it isn’t a spoiler now. surely not.
over a billion at the bo…
released months and months ago….
I think it was fairly safe to assume that if you were interested or cared that much you would have seen it by now…..
however had john had mentioned this in his initial review way back when it came out then yes it would have been a spoiler.
I didn’t know that he was in the second film. I knew he was coming back but i thought it was only in the third.
had I heard he was in the final scene in johns first review then i would have felt that the ending was spoiled for me as it was a great unexpected ending
How about just mentioning before you give out anything….something like this piece might have spoilers and we are gonna talk about such and such movies…..so if someone’s not seen the movie (even after it fucking crushed spidey and wolverine on the opening weekend) can decide not to read/listen.
a little while ago I posted a “spoiler” (I guess) about the movie Bubbu Ho Tep, in relation to its sequel, and I feel much the same way John does about it (Even though it WAS deleted): The “spoiler” gave really nothing away about the movie, and couldn’t really, in my view ruin (or “spoil”) it for anyone. It’s not really a movie that by the telling of any major plot point could be “spoiled”. It’s not a very surprising film.
I do agree that something like “The Sixth Sense”, or “Million Dollar Baby”, should never be given away.
MY VOTE:
NOT GUILTY… I mean…
NOT A SPOILER
-AB
I think that it is a spoiler based solely on the fact that it “spoiled” the surprise at the end of the movie.
Does it give away major plot points? Maybe not major but that doesnt mean it’s not a spoiler.
– “this early revelation of plot elements (Barbossa returning is an element of the plot) can “spoil” the enjoyment (being surprised is an element of the enjoyment of a movie) that some consumers of the narrative would otherwise have experienced”
Poeple who have not seen the movie would have otherwise been surprised by Barbossa’s appearance at the end. You prevented that from happening, therefore you spoiled it for them.
The argument isnt whether or not someone who frequents movie websites should or should not expect spoilers and it isnt whether or not this qualifies as a spoiler due to the time it’s been out and how popular a movie it was. The argument is whether or not the fact that John said something about the surprise ending should be considered a spoiler.
If you had not seen the movie and had no knowledge of Barbossa’s return beforehand would you still get the same feeling from the ending?
The answer is no. The surprise element would have been ruined. Or spoiled, if you prefer.
I HAVENT SEEN THE MOVIE YET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BUT I LIKE SPOILERS……OH YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ted1108,
I agree. but I think it’s an interesting topic. Don’t like it? “YOU move on” to the next story.
“Come on people, this topic is a complete waste of time (ironic, since I’m spending the time to type this).”
-If it’s a waste of time, why did John post a firly big post about it?
just curious.
“The end of Dad man’s chest happened before Barbossa popped on screen and you know it.”
– This statement makes no sense.
And believe it or not people, I’m not actually all that upset about what John said. I made one tiny comment that I thought he shouldn’t have said it and was happy to leave it at that.
What I’m bugged about is the fact that there are so many people out there who think it is perfectly okay to announce a major surprise ending (John has said the end is a surprise on more than one occasion) to hundreds, maybe thousands of people THE NIGHT BEFORE THE DVD IS RELEASED! I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.
ANY movie forum or blog that I’ve ever been to has pretty clear ettiquette (how the hell do you spell that?) about posting spoilers; whether it comes to the admins or the readers. So you’re excuses that you expect to see spoilers is kind of stupid.
All this over a film released last summer?!!! Anyone bitching should really get over themselves. Holy Fuck!!!
Was it a mistake what John said? Probably.
But for christ’s sakes people, your’re listening to a podcast about movies by a bunch of guys sitting around shooting-the-shit. Stuff like that is bound to happen. In the years since this site went up, how many times has it happened without a previous ‘spoiler’ alert going up.
Come on people, this topic is a complete waste of time (ironic, since I’m spending the time to type this). It was an honest mistake, and as far as I’m concerned, a minor one.
Move on people…
Wow, my comments are being quoted, thats a first.
AB: I agree with the coffee analogy – spot on.
Nautica: I see what you’re saying, and technically the POTC2 thing is a spoiler. I was surprised to see that at the end of the movie when I viewed it, so it’s a spoiler. I haven’t listened to the AE, so I don’t know how it was presented there, but, as in my comments, since it wasn’t released on DVD yet, it should have still been regarded as a spoiler. AFTER video release, spoiler tag bets are off.
However, I don’t get offended if I go to a movie site and read a spoiler. I fully expect it. As long as the spoiler isn’t in the title of the article, I don’t have a problem with it. Case in point – I haven’t seen Superman Returns yet, so I’m very careful reading any articles about it because I want to see it without any previous info, if possible. However, since I frequent movie sites, I’ve had info about it revealed and that’s just an inherent risk, that I take responsibility for. I don’t blame the webmaster of the site. If I don’t want it spoiled, I stay away from movie sites until after I’ve seen it.
I think that it was indeed a spoiler. No it did not give away a huge amount of the plot. But that was still a nice surprise when i saw the movie. Now i personally other then that pic you posted not seen any pictures from the new movie on the net and what not. Now we bring up the IMDB and what not but i did not generally remember who played Barbossa off the top of my head. SO listing him would not flag that he is alive. And he could have just been in flash backs and things like that in the second movie and in the newest one. Also people could have been avoiding things about the new movie and what not so saying something like that would ruin it for people. well those are my thoughts. Also earlier in the year you guys said that if the movie was more then like a year old or something like that then it was not a spoiler, i cant remember for sure but you guys did try to define it earlier in the year.
Drebacca, that’s a really silly thing to say. The end of Dad man’s chest happened before Barbossa popped on screen and you know it. You make it sound like john gave away “who done it” when you say “gave away the end of the movie”.
As far as story, plot and everything important goes, the movie was already over.
Nice try to make it sound worse than it was.
I could be wrong, but I think you’d be hard pressed to find a movie site that tells the ending to the movie without letting you know first.
eaglewing, you’re right about moviesites and spoilers abound. but the reason i go to these sites is because i love movies and want to know about what’s up and coming and all that good stuff. yes, i should’ve gone to the theatres to see potc 2, but the issue here is defining what a spoiler is. and for those who haven’t seen potc 2, it’s a spoiler, albiet not a major one.
Thanks for betting me to the punch Eaglewing. :-P
“You go to movie websites a lot, you will have movies spoiled for you.”
Exactly!!
This IS a MOVIE BLOG!! You come here, you will find out news about movies. Not just who’s in them or whether it is good or not. This site is about telling us MORE about movies including movie the plot, the characters, the plot twists, and sometimes the endings.
Not saying “spoilers” is an appeal to the typical case of “least common denominator.” For those who don’t know what I mean I will use an example. 99% of time everyone knows that when their handed a steaming hot cup of coffee they expect it to be hot… but there are the few 1% who don’t know that hot coffee is hot so we have to now but a label on coffee: “Caution: Hot Contents.”
Now I’m not saying anyone is stupid. I was just using an example.
In the case of this article, we are expected to not talk about movies in full because a few people have not seen it. That is CRAZY!!! When I go to a site about MOVIES I expect to discuss MOVIES and I don’t want to wait till everyone and their mama has seen it before I can talk about it.
I don’t care if the movie hasn’t come out yet, just came out, or has been out for years. I come to The Movie Blog to discuss/listen/read about movies and everything that comes with them…”spoilers” and all.
-AB
Don’t lie John! I listened to one of the Audio Editions and you were talking about “Lucky Number Slevin” and how its trailer gave away the main twist (you warned about spoilers but since I didn’t care seeing Slevin anyway I continued listening) but then like out of nowhere you mentioned the final twist of “The Sixth Sense”. You ruined the whole movie experience for me. Now I will just wait here for an apology :D
Luckily I was lucky enough to see “Psycho” for first time without knowing the main twist – it got spoiled for many of my friends.
As far as spoilers go, I’ve always been of the opinion that you wait until after it’s been through theatres and available on DVD for a while before making any reveals. There are a lot of people who don’t go to theatres, but after its been available on video for a while, bets are kind of off. You still want to be considerate, so if there is any doubt at all, post a spoiler tag.
The flip side of the coin is that the person being ‘spoiled’ has to take some responsibility too. You go to movie websites a lot, you will have movies spoiled for you. I know it from experience, and that’s just the way it is. Don’t want that to happen? Don’t go to movie sites.
I naturally assume news on a movie site will include spoilers at some point, so I try to be careful if there’s a movie I don’t want spoiled. I take a much bigger issue with official trailers that are released by the movie companies themselves that give away major plot points and events in a movie. That’s way worse, and harder to avoid.
A spoiler is a piece of information that effects the whole or part of the rest of the movie.
In this case, it’s a no brainer that the barbossa thing wasn’t a spoiler. Maybe while it was in theaters, but obviously not at this point.
Sean,
To your first point: ANY movie? Of course not. What part of “this movie is practically brand new” are you people not getting?
The fact that it isn’t “plot” is very debatable. But even if it’s not, it’s a major surprise at the end of the film that adds a great deal of enjoyment to the movie.
I love how you think that everyone sees a movie in the theater and that the DVD release doesn’t matter.
And as I read the definition above (although I don’t know what “undergird” means), it mentions nothing about time or how much info is on the net or how many other people have read said narrative or PART of a narrative. This example fills that definition to a tee.
okay, here are my 4 cents. if you didn’t see it (twist, etc) coming while you’re watching the movie, then it’s a spoiler. if most people can/will see it coming from a mile away, then it’s not a spoiler. like drewbacca says, courtesy is the best policy.
You have to stretch logic pretty far to consider what Campea said as a “spoiler”. Saying Fredo gets whacked by Michael while Godfather II is still in theaters is a spoiler. This is clearly and most certainly not.
Oh come on Drewbacca. Are you serious? So Before anyone on The Movie Blog talk about any movie, he should first ask his million readers “Have you seen X movie yet”? and if even one of them say “no”, then he shouldn’t discuss it?
So you agree with the analogy that saying Darth Vader is luke’s daddy is poor form, because hey, someone out there hasn’t seen it yet.
And are you seriously saying that just because a couple of people complained that makes it “fact”? Really? You please easily.
Bottom line, it’s not a spoiler. Gave nothing of the plot away and effected nothing of the film. If people are really that passionate about it, they would have saw it already. Giving away a nothing point 6 months after the fact when it’s already all over the place is not a spoiler.
Doesn’t matter how many people say so. Just my two cents worth.
No matter how old a movie is, I think it just comes down to politeness. Before you give away ANY plot detail, simply ask the person/people you are with, “Have you seen X movie yet?” If they say yes, you’re free to discuss it. If no, just leave it alone and say something like, “Oh, wait til you see the end; it is great,” or whatever.
I’ve made my thoughts clear on this, but here’s a few things anyway:
1 – The movie IS still showing IN THEATERS at many places around the world (including the discount theaters in The United States) – don’t believe me? Goto moviefone.com and type in zip 55343. The first theater on the list has POTC 2 showing today and all week. I mean c’mon, this movie is what? Only six months old?
2 – I love how Krintina keeps calling the Barbossa cameo a pointless marketing tool as if it has nothing to do with the enjoyment of the film. You’re telling me that the movie would be just as good without that plot (yes, PLOT) twist at the end? I know for a fact John thought it was an amazing ending (he may even have referred to it as one of the best ever – don’t quote me on that though) and so therefore if it’s that great and that amzing, it probably shouldn’t be revealed when this movie is still fairly new (as I pointed out in #1).
3 – The fact that a couple people complained that it is a spoiler automatically makes it a fact. If you spiled the movie for them, you spoiled the movie for them. Hence: spoiler.
4 – Moreover, LOTS of people wait for DVD releases for a film. In this case, POTC 2 comes out on DVD TODAY.
5 – I will concede this point: POTC 3 was mentioned in the show notes of the episode, so at least people know it was likely that part 2 would be discussed. It is for that reason that I don’t listen to any AE with Battlestar Gallactica in the show notes, because I’m currently catching up with it on DVD and want to know NOTHING about future episodes I haven’t seen yet.
I’m not whining or being a baby about it, I just think this is obvious and the person above who said he would make these comments to his friend not caring if they’ve seen the movie or not is plain… stupid; not to mention mean.
Okay, my 2 cents…. it is indeed a spoiler as I have not seen the movie yet and didn’t know Barbosa made a return. I don’t think it leaks anything as far as plot goes, but I may have been surprised to see him when I saw the movie. However, seeing as it is out of theaters and on video now, it is my own fault for not seeing it by now. Ultimately, don’t tip toe around discussions if it is already on video.
One of the things that I’m wondering now…. has this only become a big deal because John made a point of admitting to it on the AE?
As someone who has not yet seen POTC2 (and admittedly, WANT to see it but am not passionate about it), if John hadn’t pointed out that it related to the end of the movie, I would have had no idea it was even considered a ‘spoiler’. I’m pretty sure that knowing this now will not have much of an impact on my overall enjoyment of the movie when I do get to see it.
Sorry – that’s Matthew Fox in an elevator for non UK folks.
Going off on a TV tangent I saw the Matthew Fox in a lift SNL sketch. That makes fun of the fact that certain ppl are at different places in the series then gives away massive spoilers about the last couple of episodes aired.
I think it’s a minefield but it’s strange how there are generally two mentalities. One where a person choses not to see too much of the material for fear it will effect the overal viewing experience and the other that thrives on finding out every little scrap of detail before a film or tv ep is show.
John – how do you think you would have delt with Transformers had it literally turned up in a theatre without the drip feeding of images, clips etc?
Ok, see, most people already said what i was going to say. The added thing is that the Capt. Barbossa thing wasn’t even a plot point. It was a quick pointless cameo just for marketing sake at the end with no point.
IMO it is a spoiler, it isnt the biggest spoiler in the world so im suprised if people bitched 2 much, but IT IS A SPOILER, personally i am kinda annoyee you sed tht but ill get over it (atleast i dnt no what happens to Davy jones – the main point of the movie)
The POTC3 thing isnt a spolier more like a blurb for the movie, just cause his on POTC3 doesnt mean he is in 2…
in this case john, you didn’t give away anything that the movie studio or the media hasn’t already. so you’re right in this case. no matter how you define “spoiler”, i think we should just be considerate and not reveal too much of any movie to the person who hasn’t seen it. a simple “spoiler alert” will suffice.
I generally think that if a movie is released, but no longer playing in theaters, then giving away little tid bits are not spoilers. Especially if it was as huge as Pirates 2 was.
I think if someone gets mad at your for ruining some plot point when the movie has been out for months then they didn’t really want to watch it that badly anyways, otherwise they would have seen it by then.
Here’s how I see it. I don’t say spoilish things about any movie until a certain amount of time. Let’s say I said right now Barbossa is alive to a friend of mine and he freaks out because he didn’t see Pirates 2 yet, well I spoiled it for him but I belive I have the right to discuss the ending because everyone who has a intrest in Priates 2 should have seen it by now, so if someone freaks out you spoiled the Barbossa ending, thats not your fault, it’s theres for not seeing it. If someone is so passionate about Pirates then they should have seen it. If I spoiled the Barbossa ending for someone right now I would day ”Well you must have not been so intrested in seeing Pirates so much because mostly everyone who was intrested in seeing it has seen it already”.
Once the majority of people have seen it I belive it’s ok to disucss. If someone reads a spoiler by mistake way after a certain movie has been out, then they have no real right to complain. If they come to a movie site, what do they expect after a certain movie has been out for a long time.
Good post John. I don’t always agree with you, but you always write stuff that we think about. Cool on ya.
No, the barbossa thing wasn’t a spoiler at all. Most people saw it already, it’s not in theaters anymore, it doesn’t give any of the plot away, so no.
And I read the comments in the AE too. Anyone who says that “some” people still haven’t seen it, well, then they have to say that the Darth Vader thing you brought up is still a spoiler and we shouldn’t mention that either
When the movie drops out of the top ten at the theater you can give anything away you want.