The capacity that film fans seem to have (myself included) to over simplify certain things and fall into a blood lust of rabid and blatant fanism never ceases to amaze me. Like the fools who got running with the whole “Craig Not Bond” site when it was announced Daniel Craig was cast as the new James Bond. They, the self proclaimed “true fans of Bond” thought they knew better than the studio. They thought that Bond can only work if it fits into what they had preconceived in their minds and Daniel Craig was NOT what they preconceived. Well guess what… they were wrong. Dead wrong. And now an argument could be made that Craig is the best Bond of all time.
This post will make me really unpopular… but since when has that ever stopped me for calling it like I see it?
The same mistake that the fools at Craig Not Bond committed is now being repeated verbatim by some fans of the Lord of the Rings films… and for the most part are just repeating the same stuff the Craig Not Bond people did. “It can’t work without Jackson!”. “Peter Jackson is the ONLY person who can direct The Hobbit!”. We’ll BOYCOTT The Hobbit if Peter Jackson isn’t directing. Sad sad sad.
Look, let me make this perfectly clear. I like Peter Jackson as a director. I think the job he did on The Lord of the Rings was nothing short of fantastic and I personally would LOVE to see him come back to direct The Hobbit. But my friends… we all just need to calm down a little bit, cut through the crap, the cliché slogans, and be a bit more objective here.
There are a couple of important points to keep in mind here:
1) New Line did NOT just out of the blue decide to not use Peter Jackson. Jackson and New Line are involved in a legal dispute right now. New Line offered to negotiate a settlement with Jackson… Jackson offered to end the battle with an auditor… and both of them have dug in their heels and said “NO” to each others offers. Neither care what the fans want. Don’t believe for a second the PR bullshit New Line or Jackson try to feed you.
2) New Line has no options. They can’t wait for a court trial with Jackson because they only have a limited amount of time to make The Hobbit or else they lose the rights to the film. Jackson refuses to make it until after a trial (which is understandable given the circumstances)… so what choice does New line have but to move on without Jackson? None. You and I both would do the exact same thing and look for another director.
3) Without New Line, there never would have been a Lord of the Rings. No other studio was willing or had the vision to invest well over $300 million into the project. All other studios turned it down, or only wanted the whole trilogy to be just 1 movie instead of 3. New Line gave Peter Jackson everything he needed to do LOTR. Together they gave us film history. New Line and Jackson both got filthy rich on the deal.
TALK OF A BOYCOTT
This has got to be one of the most infantile, stupid, moronic and childish things I’ve ever heard of. “If you don’t give us the director we want, we’re going to organize a Boycott of The Hobbit”. Grow up people. Calling for a Boycott is essentially saying that even if New Line gets a new director, and The Hobbit turns out to be FANTASTIC and even better than LOTR, we’re going to plug our ears, close our eyes and yell out “LA LA LA LA LA LA, I’m not listening, I’m not watching LA LA LA LA LA”. It’s the exact same thing the “Craig Not Bond” people did… they made up their minds to hate Craig before even seeing Craig as Bond. Now they look like fools. These “boycotters” are putting themselves in the same situation.
Calling for a boycott is nothing but the actions of a bunch of deluded self important sycophants who are basically admitting that they don’t even want to know if they’re wrong… and if they are wrong… will never have to admit it because they “boycotted” the movie. Morons.
WHAT IF PETER JACKSON DIDN’T DIRECT LOTR?
Stay with me here with this scenario. Imagine for a moment that Ron Howard (Just pulled that name out) had directed LOTR. Stay with me… stay with me. Just imagine that for a moment. Ok. Now, let’s say the films turned out 99% as wonderful as they did with Jackson. Ok? Got it? Everyone LOVED the Ron Howard LOTR trilogy. Ok? Got it?
Now, Ron Howard and New Line have a legal battle and it’s announced that Howard won’t be back to direct The Hobbit. Everyone gets all pissed off, and some fools start calling for a Boycott. Still with me? Ok… now imagine this….
New Line hires this other experienced director do to The Hobbit named Peter Jackson. New Line is confident that this Peter Jackson guy will do a great job with it. But still, the LOTR fans cry out “If it’s not Ron Howard it shouldn’t be anyone at all!!! This Peter Jackson will never do as good of a job as Ron Howard!!!”.
You see where I’m going with this right? In this imaginary scenario, the fans would be WRONG. Little did they know that this Peter Jackson was actually going to do a BETTER job than Ron Howard… but the fans were too narrow minded to see beyond what they’ve already seen.
Now, in our reality, Ron Howard is actually Peter Jackson… but somewhere our there… there is another director who could possibly do and even better job than Jackson did. Why not at least admit the possibility?
DIRECTOR CHANGES
Sometimes, every once in a while, a director change is a good thing, no matter how good the previous director did. People couldn’t believe George Lucas wasn’t going to direct Empire Strikes Back… and that worked out great (they changed directors again for Return of the Jedi, and once again, magnificent). Harry Potter has changed directors almost every film… and it has survived just fine thank you.
TO SUM IT ALL UP
– I would love to see Jackson back to direct The Hobbit
– New Line and Jackson are both responsible for it not happening
– A boycott is moronic, stupid and screwing yourself out of the chance that replacing Jackson for Howard might be even better
– Other Franchises have changed directors and it can work out great
– It’s ok to not like the news that Jackson isn’t directing The Hobbit. It’s even ok to HATE the news. It’s cool to think The Hobbit will suck without Jackson…. but at least admit this MIGHT just work out even better. That there is a chance Jackson not directing won’t matter. At least be willing to give it a shot, even if you don’t think it’ll work.
We all just need to calm down, have a drink, eat some left over turkey, and go to a strip club or something tonight.
Cheers! (you may now begin sending me your hate mail)
Tim,
Peter Jackson IS Hollywood
John,
I’m 53. I would like to go to the cinema and be safe in the knowledge of what I was about to recieve! It’s not unreasonable. I’m not holding up Mr. Jackson as some sort of mesiah – I just like his interpretation of the book and doubt the ability of ‘Hollywood’ to do better!
Tim,
just look a few posts above… you said it. And what other blog are you talking about?
John,
Don’t tell me you’re ‘Dave’ from the other blog! I’ve never mentioned being sycophantic or values on either of the blogs where I’ve knowingly posted to you!
Tim,
It’s frustrating communicating with you if you won’t listen.
I’ve said over and over and over and over and over again and again and again… that I WANT PETER JACKSON TO DIRECT THE HOBBIT. How many langueages do I have to say it in?
BUT….
New Line offered it to him… he refused. And you admit yourself:
“it doesn’t mean he’s the only one who could have done it”
Soooo… logically that means that another person could have done it. AND another person could do it for The Hobbit.
I’d love it to be Peter Jackson… but he chose not to do it and is now conspiring to cheat New Line out of the rights to the film. The company that made it possible for him to make LOTR in the first place. And, another director just may do an even better job.
Jackson dida great job on LOTR… but that doens’t mean another director can’t do a great… or better job too.
John,
No, it doesn’t mean he’s the only one who could have done it – but he delivered before anyone else did and did a damn find job. Why not finish the job in the same fashion? nWhat’s wrong whith that? It’s not a Star Wars film – it’s bringing a book to LIFE!
Your right Tim, it’s better o be sycophantic to some director.
Jackson lying to the fans, saying he had “no idea” New Line had a time limit when it’s now come out that he knew all along and has been trying to steal the rights away from New Line… the company that made him what he is.
Values? Don’t talk to me about “values”
o.k. so I lied.
that wasn’t my last post but I have to say that one thing i will give campea is while he and I disagree on a lot of things he is certainly passionate films…I don’t agree with you there at all….read his posts and listen to the audio edition…without a passionate love of films he wouldn’t run this site
The only thing I don’t get though john is why you seem so concerned that new line get to make the film…..
if I had a choice between a new line funded hobbit or a jackson directed hobbit – I would take the jackson directed hobbit…it doesn’t bother me whose logo is at the start of the film (although I am such a geek that I still want even that to tie in with the other films.)
I don’t know where this so called “credible” rumour started that jackson is doing all of this to get the rights? doing what??announcing he isn’t making the film…how can that or how can he in anyway stop new line moving ahead???…how does his statement in anyway stop or stall new line…they have already approached another director so if he is it aint working…..
but even if he is trying to get the rights(which I doubt highly for the reasons already mentioned) why is that so bad..what does he owe them?? they obviously don’t feel they owe him anything so why he should he worry about them..it hardly makes him an asshole. it makes him someone who really wants to make a film – just not with people he has falling out with. Hardly a huge crime is it?
Oh, John,
Another thing. No, I would not behave like you and others and choose a new director. I have some values – other than just wanting to be sycophantic to some film company. If a ‘product’ has merit, then do it justice.
Hey Tim:
You said this:
“We want to ‘see’ The Hobbit as J.R.R.Tolkien wrote it – and it is my firm belief that only Mr. Jackson and his team can provide this”
Ummm… what do you base that on? What on earth justifies saying that Peter Jackson is the ONLY person on the planet who can do it? Because he did it once before? That makes him the ONLY one? Wow… ok… Whatever you say.
I guess that means if one person does a good job on someting… that means he’s the only one who could have ever done it. Sure.
Hi John,
Tracked you down at last, since you declined to answer my last post!
No, I’m not a stalker – don’t get worried, but I would like to have my say since you certainly have yours.
I would like to express an opinion that I think you will not understand. Mr. Jackson ‘revealed’ Middle Earth, Hobbiton, etc. in an unique way.
I understand that you don’t like the idea of being dictated to, (that it is a MUST for PJ to direct it) but what about the feelings of the true Tolkien fan? The fee paying cinema goer (customer)? Do we not have a say? Are you the only one who knows?
Tolkien fans do not want an ‘action’ movie – they want an honest representation of what he wrote – that’s what it’s all about!
This is more than money (if only New Line and Mr. Jackson could see it). We want to ‘see’ The Hobbit as J.R.R.Tolkien wrote it – and it is my firm belief that only Mr. Jackson and his team can provide this.
V Wilson is an idiot.
Your ignorance and simplicity is why so many people think film fans are morons. What an idiot.
First off, here is a short posting from theonering.com. It should shine some light on why Peter Jackson has done what he has done and perhaps why New Line seems to be pushing the panic button to find a qualified director.
–
Saul Zaentz On The Hobbit
Demosthenes @ 2:12 am EST
Saul Zaentz, the owner of Tolkien Enterprises, and ultimate holder of the film rights to The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings was very recently interviewed about the Hobbit and Peter Jackson’s involvement.
The interview has since been posted on German Rings site Elbenwald. You can read the original article here. It’s in German, so below is a translation of his comments. The translation comes from Jurgen at TheHobbit-Movie.com.
Q: What is with the long anticipated Hobbit-adaption?
A: It will definitely be shot by Peter Jackson. The question is only when. He wants to shoot another movie first. Next year the Hobbit-rights will fall back to my company. I suppose that Peter will wait because he knows that he will make the best deal with us. And he is fed up with the studios: to get his profit share on the rings trilogy he had to sue New Line. With us in contrast he knows that he will be paid fairly and artistically supported without reservation.
–
Interesting words from someone very close to the the truth.
I am certainly one of the many who hopes this is indeed the truth. I really don’t care for the lack of passion the author of this blog has towards movies in general. He says he is a movie fan yet he seems to think that throwing projects around to whomever will guarantee a quality product. I couldn’t disagree more. Can the two people on the planet who are Joel Schumacher fans please stand up. They are the only two people who liked Batman Forever and Batman and Robin. Although I am not a big fan of Tim Burton, his vision was far superior until a more in touch with the comic book Chris Nolan showed up. I doubt Ron Howard, Sam Raimi, Steve Spielberg, etc posses the same knowledge, fanatisism and devotion to the Tolkien library that Peter Jackson had. Yesterday I posted numerous reasons why Jackson should be the only choice. I think the author of this blog chose not to read them or chose to ignore their validity. Continuity, familiarity knowledge of source material, track record, knowledge of New Zealand as Middle Earth setting, filmmaking infrastructure (Wingnut Films, WETA Digital + Workshop), vision and past experience lead me to believe that he is the only one who can make “The Hobbit” anywhere close to the quality of LotR. Other directors may make a very credible version but I for one will not settle for a good steak when I can have a filet mignon. True devoted fans of LotR, Bond, Batman etc etc, should not have to settle for anything but what THEY CONCIDER to be the best. They are the true hard core fanatics and devoted followers of the genre or topic in question. Casual film fans like the Blog Master have no right to tell the hard core fans what they should tolerate due to the fact that other than their ten bucks, they have not invested the time nor the passion to make that decision. LotR fans have spoken. They want Peter Jackson. Enough said. Respect that because it is they who dished out the majority of money that both New Line and PJ collected. Not the casual movie buff. And for what it’s worth, Daniel Craig did a very good job as James Bond. But he is still wrong for the part. He lacked the suave class and charm that Connery, Moore and Brosnan gave the part. Clive Owen would have been perfect. Craig however, was a more manly and physical Bond.
Still, Bond fans (and I’m not that big a fan) are right. Hollywood has got to stop being like the Bush Administration. Start listening to your base and stop thinking they know better than fans who are loyal and devoted. Appease the ones who pay your wages I say.
sorry for the long post …I promise that is my last ever post on this matter. I have said that before I know but I am just repeating the same old shit and I am boring myself so I can imagine how boring I am looking to you…
in fact it isn’t even the story as much as my addiction to this site…..
I agree, while it may be “different” if Jackson doesnt direct doesnt mean a boycott is rational or even necessary.
The craig not bond people have their foot in their mouths and so will the Jackson only Hobbit people if they think they will boycott on principle
for the record i don’t believe jackson has to do it. I am a fan of his sure But I am not going to skip seeing the hobbit just because he isn;t involved. that isn;t what I have been arguing……
Although I really hate hypothetical arguments like the ron howard scenario…its just making up shit to suit your own argument. you can’t argue “what if he didn’t direct it” at all because, well, he did.
what if, and stay with me here, ron howard directed the lotr trilogy. and it was a total disaster…it destroyed his career and collapsed the studio. The studio head committed suicide and Brian Grazer howards producer was brought up on fraud charges after syphoning off huge chunks of the budget into his back pocket….I mean this is all hypothetical of course….then it is found out a bunch of murders that took place were linked to the film and that was why the head of the studio killed himself. It was the cotton club part 2!!!you should have read the news stories about..oh sorry I forgot it was hypothetical for a minute….but lets say it became the biggst fiasco in film history… would anyone be even suggesting making another film in middle earth after the howard disaster?
I mean if we are going to just make shit up lets go hog wild…
what if germany won the second world war?? and not only were we all speaking german but all cinema was banned….we wouldn’t be here on the movie blog so this argument wouldn’t be taking place….
I know I am being totally, totally supid of course but in general I hate hypothetical arguments…you can make up any old shit to suit your own argument..it doesn’t prove anything at all because the facts are jackson did make LOTR and the combined BO of those films was almost equal to New Lines entire BO history to that point…..
The fact that they were the studio who had the vision and balls to make the films has nothing to do with anything. I have always maintained that they should get all the credit they deserve for it..No one else had the nerve and they did…..
but come on ultimately all they did was put the money up to make a film. A high risk film sure but they are film studio. that is what they do. they fund films. And in this case they got over 3 billion dollars as a return on their investment. Its a good thing they didn’t hire ron howard or they would have had the blood of several murders on their hands!!
A much better argument could be made by pointing out all the sequels that did go ahead without the original director involved that were great..unfortunately the list isn’t to big.Aliens, empire strikes back(although it wasn’t like lucas wasn’t involved at all so it isn;t the same really he was still heavily hands on), star trek 2, blade 2 (maybe..I prefer it anyway) but then you could also make alist of films that went ahead without the original makers that were awful and that list is far too long….Jaws 2, Dumb and Dumberer, Hannibal, terminator 3, Robocop 2, Die Hard 2 (o.k. so not awful but nowhere near as good as 1 or 3…adn what do you know part 3 they brought back the director of the first one) Grease 2, Batman Forever the list goes on and on..there are so many more ….sure some of these films aren’t awful but most of them in my opinion are far lesser in quality to the originals.
Xmen 3? sure not as awful as I thought it would be but nowhere near as good as the first 2….
Harry Potter – come on john…you fucking hated the third one. you know..the third one… the first time they changed directors? and you hated it……and then you you loved the fourth one as did i so harry potter is an example of both sides of the change scenario working out…one change was awful…one change was good….
anyway I just want to be clear that I don’t think jackson has to direct it .. that no one else can…like you guys I just want him too…continuity in the films would be great..
I won’t boycott it but I also don’t begrudge anyone who does or starts a petition….theres nothing wrong with feeling passionate about something. I don;t think it is childish, stupid or moronic. I think that is being a bit harsh….some people get swept up into things and love something so much they feel they want to try and do something about it….fair enough. they love jacksons films and can’t see it working without him….good on them. I don;t feel as strongly about that but to kind of call them morons is a but rough. but thats your opinion and your right…just seems a bit harsh
My main point in this whole thing has been the court case.
I just don’t see how jackson is in the wrong here at all. Please don’t attack as being some blind fan boy because I really am not……I just see it the way I see it – Jackson feels ripped off and if the past behaviour of pretty much all studios is to be used as the precedent then he probably has..
New Line want to settle. No one knows anything about what the suggested but whatever it was it wasn’t good enough for Jackson. wants an independant auditor to have a look at the books and if they let that happen he will accept whatever the findings are.
So why won’t new line do that? it is only going to court because they don’t want to let that happen. if you have nothing to hide why would you fight it? The way I read it is jackson didn’t mean he would start working for them after the audit..he would sign on immediately if they let and audit begin because if he is going to accept the findings either way he doesn’t need to wait to see what they say…he just wants them to let an audit take place. And the fact they won’t to me says something is fishy in their books. But now it will be up to a judge to decide in about 5 years time!!!
If raimi does it fine at least he is a good director – just please don’t let it go to andrew adamson….I hated narnia….del toro is a good idea too……
Regardless, I agree with the points you’re making 100%.
A new director does not mean the movie will suck. It might just be better.
“Actually, the stuff about Star Wars… is all stuff I’ve never put in a post before.”
That’s strange. It sure looks like this part of the post titled “It’s Official: Peter Jackson is not directing The Hobbit” had something to do with Star Wars –
“5) This isn’t the end of the world. As I said above, who is to say another director won’t do an even better job than Jackson? We don’t know… because Jackson’s Middle Earth is the only one we’ve seen so far. Many thought it was unthinkable that George Lucas wasn’t going to direct The Empire Strikes Back… well guess what? Many people think it was even better than the first Star Wars now. This could happen again. I’m certainly not saying it will… BUT WE JUST DON’T KNOW”
You have kind of made all these points ad nauseam, John.
Unless you were being sarcastic, which wouldn’t make sense either because you havent referenced Howard yet.
Strange indeed.
if it gets made and is awesome who gives a shit.
Agreed.
Read the same post every other day. Thought if I wrote “agreed” (which I do) JC would stop writing about it and thinking it was him vs. the world.
First of all, I think your headline is misleading, you know that these are not your “final thoughts” on this subject.
That being said, the whole Jackson debate, I agree that cries for boycotts are ridiculous, your Bond example is a very good one. However, when speaking of Jackson’s LOTR, we are not talking about just one person, we are talking about a team, this is the point I think you are missing. PJ put together a team from writters, musicians, art design to set design, costume design, actors, minitures, digital effects, etc. that nailed the feel of middle earth, that is what New Line is risking loosing. Can a different director construct a team that might get the job done? Possibly, but I’ll bet it won’t measure up to what PJ’s team could have done.
While I agree that another director could do a good job with the hobbit, my expectations are now quite lower for the film. I will still see the movie, and I will get excited about it as it draws near, but I dont think I will be able to shake the “what could have been?” feeling no matter how good (or bad) this movie turns out.
The success of “Rings” casts such a big shadow on this film that it will be near difficult for another director to live up to the hype this film is garaunteed to generate.
The only saving grace here is that the Hobbit has a different “feel” to it than the Lord of the Rings. In my opinion a complete departure from “Rings” might be the best bet for a new director, as far as feel and tone and cast.
Hey Ted,
Ron Howard was just a name I pulled out of the air. But since we’re onthe subject… WHAT ABOUT WILLOW?!?!?! Cinderallea Man? Back Draft? Come on man! :P
I agree with everything you said John, except for using Ron Howard as an example. There’s no way he could do an even ‘adequate’ job of directing an epic. I’m not too fond of his non-epic films either (except for Ransom, that one was actually pretty good.)
But, everything else you’ve said is dead on.
Hey Andrew,
Actually, the stuff about Star Wars, Potter, and what if Howard directed is all stuff I’ve never put in a post before.
Your scenario (about the rights going back to Tolkein) have been flying around a little bit… and there are some credible rumors right now that Jackson lied through his teeth to the fans when he said “I didn’t know there was a time limit”. how stupid is he? Or… how stupid does he think we are to believe him?
If this is true, and the stall is all a part of Jacksons plans to get Hobbit away from New Line, then I will be VERY disapointed in Jackson. Not only did he lie to the fans (surprise surpirse) but also he’s trying to screw out the company that is responsible for his success. Whithout New Line, LOTR never gets made… and we’re all still saying “Peter who?”
I hope it’s not true.
Even though you’ve made these points a gazillion times, I still agree with you 100%.
Here’s my idea: what if New Line decides not to make The Hobbit. The rights dissolve back to Tolkein in a year. Who says New Line has to make The Hobbit? What if Jackson strikes a deal to create The Hobbit with Tolkein Enterprises under Wingnut (or some new fancy production house… “Tolkein Films” anyone)? That way everyone is happy. Though I’d certainly like to see what the LOTR universe would look like through another director’s eyes.
Excellent observation Lou
That was the biggest problem with Kong (aside from some horrible VFX shots here and there). It was like Jackson forgot how to edit. You’re probably right… that was more than likely just a hang over from LOTR.
No hate from me John. I agree 100% with your assessment of the situation.
Personally, I think the best thing Jackson could do right now is a ‘little’ film like The Lovely Bones.
After LOTR he was burnt out. Some of that fatigue showed in King Kong. The toughest decisions artists have to make is, ‘killing their babies’. Editting a work is the hardest part. Jackson could not muster the energy to view Kong with a critical eye and make necessary trims.