Star Wars Episode Three Title!

Sounds like a scam to me, but they are piping it over at AICN like its all offical and stuff. It was apparently announced at the SanDiego Comic-Con.

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It would be approrpriate, since the first two prequel titles were laughable and sounded like they were red herrings, but they stuck and we dont think they are too strange any more.

Episode6 was originally called Revenge of the Jedi, but was later changed to Return of the Jedi since Jedi technically are taught Revenge is bad, as well, the term Revenge seemed too dark for this movie aimed mostly at teenagers.

Oh well, guess its good enough now.

EDIT: It is official. StarWars.com is now stating it as fact too!

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53 thoughts on “Star Wars Episode Three Title!

  1. Hey. I am one of those nutbars.

    I own the Christmas Special. Yeah, you know it, because you watched my copy.

    And before you say it. Yes. It sucked more than Battlefield Earth. But its a rare peice of StarWars stuff us nutbars go cookoo for.

  2. Okay, “reaction” — changing the name to thwart bootleggers is untrue. Because back in ’83.. there really weren’t that many bootleggers to thwart. Oh I’m sure there was still a tiny industry, but bootlegging like today couldn’t be done. — Picking out someone standing there with a Super 8 video camera would’ve been, how you say.. a little TOO obvious…

    2) .. The title WASN’T changed at the last minute.. it was changed early in the marketing phase, making merchandise with “Revenge” on it VERY rare, and hence EXTREMELY valuable – especially to Star Wars nut-bars.

  3. Since the Jedi way says revenge is wrong George felt it wasnt an appropriate title.

    Lucasfilm lost a lot of money reprinting the Revenge posters and made those few who got their hands on one very lucky fellas.

    His last minute choice of title change was purely for consistancy.

  4. Just curious… it seems like i heard forever ago something, possibly just legend, about the change of Revenge/Return of the Jedi being to thwart bootleggers. Supposedly it was changed extremely close to the release, leaving bootleggers with the aforementioned unsalable Revenge of the Jedi posters, etc. already printed.

  5. You can pretty much get the point of sarcasm very quickly. When it keeps on going, and going, and going, it becomes a pissing contest. Personally, I’m in agreement with Bubba and Jason (though I like Bubba’s very clean way of stating it). The fact is, Rodney didn’t intend to offend but he chose his words poorly. And perhaps he’s fighting a losing battle (i.e. the REAL fan arguement, I used to create my own x-wings and millenium falcons from lego’s for years and I despised the first film) but those who were offended need to pick up thier bruised ego and move on. I think “agreeing to disagree” is a good idea, especially when there is no progress. And there is rarely progress in a piss puddle.

  6. And for the record….this is exactly why I never posted anything on AICN…..who wants to get bashed for giving a opinion(even if it is on the net)

  7. For the record….I wasn’t trying to come off as a whiner….just was doing what we do….give our opinions….if you read my past posts….i said I enjoyed Rodney’s comments….just that I disagreed with this one…..I don’t think I attacked him. If giving my opinion….some based on facts…..is taken for bashing someone or whinning…well I don’t know what to say anymore here. I’ve been on this site but never posted any comments for about 6 months…..and when I do…..well…I learned my lesson. I will agree and follow like a good little soldier…..Hut…2,3,4……

  8. Hey…. I heard that….

    My focus was the brassness towards others a few comments back, not necessarily your opinions.
    Dave’s was also lacking in dripping cocky sarcasm.

  9. I am not taking it personally. But you forgot to end your statements with “for me”

    Just in case your opinions were misconstrued as presumptions. You did make some pretty blatant claims there.

  10. 1. As with Vadar there is always a possibility that George Lucas will be redeemed.

    2. If not hell’s too good for what he’s done to his filmic legacy.

    3. Episode One is makes Dinotopia look postively complex.

    4. Episode two may be one of the best bad movies ever made.

    5. Episode 3 could be the greatest Star wars movie yet-that still doesn’t excuse the other two.

    6. All the other actors have gone on to make great movies since their appearance in the these last two festering boils on the butt of fandom.

    7. Rodney- don’t take any of this personally.

    8. Lucas should introduce a character that lisps so that we find out the “sith” aren’t really the “sith” at all but actually the “siss” this would make as much sense as Wookies, Jar-Jar, Natalie Portman’s Space Frederick’s of Hollywood gear in Episode two and the full frontal nude shot of Yoda that was only trimmed when the MPAA threatened to give the film a G rating and let Lucas go down in flames.

  11. See.. it was my opinion on what makes a REAL fan or not. You can disagree. That is fine. I didnt say you couldnt.

    Not holier than thou at all. I wouldnt dare challenge your knowledge of Asian films.

    I have a rare perspective on movies. They are entertainment. I base my experience with a film based on entertainment value. I loved Hudson Hawk, and even Lost in Space.

    Great movies? Not really. fun to watch …yup.

    The irony is that I have already said that I like Star Wars despite its flaws, and I even admit to knowing what they are. And yet I still have someone attacking me insisting on detailing the flaws.

    I am sure we could have a good chat about the things that bother us about Star Wars. (Medichlorians?) But as I stated before. I didnt post so that people could tell me them.

  12. You know, Jason, I may agree with you that the prequels aren’t particularly good films but that doesn’t change the fact that you’re coming across as a whining little child. Get over it. Say your piece and move along.

    Rodney: No, it was NOT clearly implied that you were simply stating your opinion. When you make a statement like this:

    “I would have to say that the defining point between a REAL StarWars fan and just some movie goer who thinks they know a thing or two about StarWars is that they can see that the first two were not bad movies.”

    you are making a very clear value judgement i.e. that you, and other people who happen to share your opinion, are the only REAL fans (emphasis yours) and by extension that everybody who has a differing opinion is somehow inferior and thus can be brushed aside without any thought. Further, when you make comments about your ‘credentials’ you are very clearly saying that your opinion is somehow more authoritative than anyone else’s, which, quite simply, is bullshit.

    Who are you to say whether I’m a “real” fan or not? You don’t know the first thing about my history with the franchise. I grew up on Star Wars. My Star Wars figures and ships were my best loved toys for probably a decade. I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve seen the original trilogy. I’ve seen every single film – other than the first, when I was too young – on opening day, including the special editions. And I still say that Episodes One and Two aren’t very good films. Who the hell are you to say that I’m not a ‘real’ fan because I don’t share your opinion? Even in your defence of the films you’ve acknowledged, repeatedly, that there are major flaws. If you want a detailed list of reasons why I don’t care for the prequels, I can provide them quite easily but you probably already know what they are.

    That’s not to say that YOU can’t enjoy the films, or that they can’t hold meaning for you. God knows I’ve got weak spots for my share of dodgy films but get off your holier-than-thou perch.

  13. Since you love all my posts….here is another….Isn’t the reason we read this and other Movie Sites to give our opinion about our favorite things……can we agree to disagree? I dunno….

  14. Since you love all my posts….here is another….Isn’t the reason we read this and other Movie Sites to give our opinion about our favorite things……can we agree to disagree? I dunno….

  15. It was a statement pointing out the futility of having to say “for me” after every stated opinion.

    You have answered more questions for me in that statement than 5 posts of mock-debate.

    Thank you

  16. X Men was a good movie….Singer did a great job(in my opinion)….Ms. Berry was ok. But she was a 2nd ter player in the film and I don’t rememeber her performance taking attention away from the story……that aside….what is your point? In relation to what we were talking about?

  17. Day…..but look at it this way…..The 1st Star Wars had a built in audience who thought they were getting the magic from the last three…..they flew to the Phantom Menace expecting great things….most were let down…or said things similiar to what people said about “Reloaded”…you know…”Liked it….not as good as the original”…..similar to what people said about Temple of doom when comparing it to Raiders. T2,in my opionion was as good as the original…..Last Crusade was on a par with Raiders(in my opinion)……

    Ths all started because….In my opinion…..George Lucas decided he had a heavy burden in making the 1st three episodes….he focused on CGI and not the story,acting or script. While yes…the Star,Empire and Jedi are not acting class examples of greatness…..at least they were not a distraction. You have all this Badness(script,acting,TOO much CGI,under whelming direction,ect….) leads you to doubt what your setting aside the next $7 for May 19th, 2005?

    I never had a problem with the fact that the City in the sky was white walls and not windows with “action” outside….I enjoyed Solo,Billy Dee and Chewbaca far too much to notice. I cared less that you could see the screen threw the cockpit in Star Wars because I cared more about what happened to Luke Skywalker……

    That’s all….nothing more or less. I just got let down….but I will still pay to find out for myself….I’ll go so far as to say…I will buy the DVD when it comes out and put it on the shelf….but I won’t sit down half way threw a TV showing on a Sunday with a smile on my face…..I’ll save that for “The Great Escape” or Leathal Weapon or even……….Rocky 4…errr

  18. Thank you Dave. To clarify then… all of my clearly stated opinions do apply only to me. I felt that was already implied.

    Halle Berry made a crappy Storm, but I still say Xmen series are the best comic book movies yet. For me. sigh

  19. While I am not the smartest movie buff…or for that matter….person in the world….I have had my feelings hurt and am about to cry….Rodney….you’ve cut me deep man…I thought I meant more to you…..I’ve got to go…my key board is soggy….Im the words of my reality TV Star(Rodney”I Drive Impaired”king)….”CAN’T WELL ALL JUST GET ALONG?”

  20. Jason,

    It depends on the sequel.
    Usually Sequels DON’T make as much money, especially if things got really popular the first time around.

    Shrek 2 is the first sequel to ever crack the top 15 money makers. – Overlooking continuing stories like LOTR, Star Wars, Harry Potter etc.

    However, that said, sequels in a trilogy (an actual STORIED trilogy, not just a written “part 2”) seem to do comparably well more often than not. Whereas something like oh… the police academy for example, kept losing steam as they went along.

    – On the flipside, Austin Powers made MUCH more money the second time around thanks to word of mouth built off the first one. It really depends.

    Word of mouth REALLY helps. The Matrix Triolgy is a prime example:

    The original:
    171 Million $ domestically – Everyone talked about it and couln’t wait for…

    Part 2: Reloaded
    281.5 million $ domestically from excited fans. Mind you, it received luke-warm reviews at best, some people hated it, and it is generally accepted as a disappointment. Therefore, no one was nearly as excited for…

    Part 3: Revolutions
    139 million $. Over 30 million less than the original.

    Basically, it’s a toss up. If you’re writing a sequel because the first one was successful, it’s risky – a business person is an idiot if they make a film depending on 100% attendance from those who saw it the last time. — However, if word of mouth has been building and it has been successful on video, your chances might be good.

  21. Okay, just to clarify everything…

    “My comment was not intended as a flame war.”
    Then you shouldn’t say stuff like:
    “…between a REAL StarWars fan and just some movie goer …” -or-
    “…to illustrate your narrow minded approach..”
    – because frankly, they’re not very nice things to say.

    As for almost everything else. You need to end your sentences with “…for me”.

    Since you say that you “could probably agree with every detail” of the newer star wars complaints because “most of them are valid”. – “The impressive part is how they dont ruin the film” – is more aptly written: “They don’t ruin the movie for me.” But, what some will say is an inferior story DOES ruin the movie for others, and that doesn’t make them narrow minded.

    I just feel that people like to attack the film for no reason other than to earn a place on the anti-george bandwagon.
    – From what I’ve been reading, people are complaining about acting, directing, character choice and screenplay. – Whether you agree or not is irrelevant, they’re still valid things to complain about.

    That upset about it? Don’t go.
    – Much like your point about TRUE Star Wars fans, the Star Wars fans you’re debating with loved, and still want to love Star Wars. The fact that they didn’t like the new movies isn’t enough to make them forget how much they liked the originals. – In my opinion, that’s an impressive way to be as a fan.

    At very least, complain about valid Lucas flaws.
    – they *ARE* .. the thing is, you just don’t agree.
    You’ve even already said yourself that: “I could probably agree with every detail that falls right off of that bandwagon. Most of them are valid.”
    – The points you listed in your comment (keeping originals locked, changing Anakin’s ghost) are also valid complaints, but you happen to agree with those, so to you, they’re instantly valid.

    Lucas is not some great writer, but he is a writer. He is not the best director, but he is a director.
    I’m sure John would agree with me on this one, because I believe he said it first: George Lucas is an amazing story-teller, but he’s not a good *director*. Follow up on any of his actors and they’ll all tell you that as a director, he provides very little support to work with. Ron Howard loves telling the story of George Lucas telling him that working with puppets is better because you don’t have to deal with actors. I would question ANY director who says they don’t like directing actors. — Because that’s part of what directors are SUPPOSED to do.

    The acting is no better now than it was in the original triolgy.
    – This one is tricky, because it’s largely subjective. The fact that BOTH trilogies house some amazing actors yet the acting is questioned is interesting… Personally, I think the acting was a lot worse in the newer ones – as to why, has it’s theories. Who knows, but yes, you’re right, no one will ever stand up and use Star Wars as an acting model.

  22. Can anyone tell me what this is:

    922,379,000-648,200,000=274,179,000?

    Anyone? Divide it by 7…….

    How about this-39,168,428.57?

    The 1st number is the world wide gross of the 1st Star Wars…..the 2nd number is the world wide gross of the 2nd…..

    by my calculations…the diffrence in gross is a little over $279 million….divide that by the average ticket price…I used $7…..I figure about 39 million people world wide passed or didn’t go back to see the 2nd movie again…..must be because they viewed the 1st one sooooooo much…..they were full.

  23. My comment was not intended as a flame war. I said it before, and still say it now.
    “I still profess to love these films, and yes, I know of their shortcomings. I can even tell you a whole lot of them. But I can still enjoy Star Wars – any of them – without being distracted by them. THAT is what makes it magic.”

    I can be very critcal of Star Wars, and I could probably agree with every detail that falls right off of that bandwagon. Most of them are valid. The impressive part is how they dont ruin the film. The spirit of the Star Wars movies are still there. I admit there are faults, I don’t think they ruin the film.

    I just feel that people like to attack the film for no reason other than to earn a place on the anti-george bandwagon.

    Nothing wrong with CGI its not a crutch, its a tool. Jurassic Park would have been lame with an anamatronic TRex or Raptors. Lucas’s droid army would have looked retarded if they were costumed actors.

    That upset about it? Don’t go. You didnt see me in line to go see Catwoman or the third Matrix movie.

    Lucas is not some great writer, but he is a writer. He is not the best director, but he is a director. His movies might not ever get an oscar for acting, but they still provide entertainment.

    At very least, complain about valid Lucas flaws. Keeping the original triolgy locked away (when he can release BOTH original and special editions and make twice the money) is probably a bad decision. Changing Annakin’s ghost to Hayden is probably a bad decision.

    The acting is no better now than it was in the original triolgy. This is no better or worse written than the original trilogy.

  24. Jason please, if you are going to attempt to discredit me, try to read first. I said Jango/Boba Fett were not deep characters.

    Annakin is a very deep character. Lots going on in there. Jango? Handful of spoken lines and a combat scene. Boba Fett has already had more lines as a kid than he did in 5&6.

  25. Roddo.

    Relax. No one is raping your mother.

    No one is questioning your addiction to Star Wars.
    No one is insulting your addiction to Star Wars.

    But insulting someone because they are OPEN minded enough to still be critical of a franchise they like is stupid.

    You sound like the kids in the “You Got Served” thread just rambling on that they loved it and that others who disagree: “shouldn’t hate…appreciate!!”. The fact is, it was a mediocre movie at best. It was. You’re still free to like it, you’re still free to LOVE it – even if the only reason you do love it is because you, and I quote: “know whats wrong with it and dont care”.

    You can’t call someone who cares about a franchise they loved not a REAL fan or closed-minded because they see a drop in film quality — they are upset and frustrated BECAUSE they care about it.

    If McDonald’s started using ground pork in their hamburgers — do you know who would throw a fit? — That’s right – people who LIKE and EAT McDonald’s!!! — And the MORE they like and eat McDonald’s, they more they’ll be upset.

    If anything, pre-determining that you are going to love something no matter what it is, whether good or bad and shut off your ability to adequately judge and critique something (..ahem…Crossfire) just because it has “star Wars” written on it is close minded.
    To quote the wise and late Chris Farley: “If you want me to take a dump in a box and label it [Star Wars], I will”.

  26. Narrow Minded? What is narrow minded about enjoying good film making? What do you profess to enjoying about the 1st two
    ? The quality script? The excellent direction? The use of CGI as a crutch? Oh…..I know….the excellent use of quality actors?
    Lord had a plot ,quality script,acting,direction,ect…..when you don’t get that(as with Star Wars)….you look for faults…like the over use of CGI to make up for George forgetting about what made his other movies good film making. Case in point…..wouldn’t anyone rather see the original episode’s….not the digital redo’s from 99? It took away from the story because it made you look at the effect….not the story.

    You said it your self….Hayden’s Anikin is not a “very deep character” and all of us are waiting for a plot point to make up for the lack of depth. How can a movie be considered Good(on it’s own) when the main character has no depth…and you only care about him because of what you know from the 1st three films?

    Say what you want…..all the 1st two films are is glossy $20 DVD’s sitting on a shelf.

  27. It does not offend me for you to illustrate your narrow minded approach.

    I didnt say you were not entitled to your opinion, I simply stated that just because YOU cannot bring yourself to enjoy these films as much as the original triolgy, doesnt mean that its simply fact.

    Myself? I can enjoy StarWars even with its CGI (Lord of the Rings uses at least three times as much) and just because you cannot get caught up in the film long enough to over look it, doesnt mean others cannot enjoy them.

    AGAIN. I do not claim these movies are perfect. I just find that there are more people waiting to cut them up than those willing to simply enjoy them. My post practically proves it.

    Enjoy the movies. Watch them without tearing it up. It is possible.

  28. Rodney,
    I hope this does not offend you but I will say this with as much tact as I can….

    When I flip around on Saturday nite at 3:30 in the morning or on Sunday at 2pm….I always stop and watch “Beverly Hills Cop”….Robocop….Raiders…Jaws….Star Wars….And I feel like I am spending my free time well…..I do not get that feel ing from the 1st two…..while you cannot compare every movie to those…..I can say that those two do not bear repeated viewings……and again…the CGI is so over run…that it leads me to distraction…..They are OK movies….but just because they have Star Wars connected to the title does not make it better than it is…sorry. I mean no disrespect and I have read you opionions before and agree with most. But they are 2 1/2 star movies at the best…..and it it George’s fault….that is why I am glad Spielberg will have the creative control when it comes to Indiana 4.

  29. Thank you Bubba. I was going to say that very same thing. In all other films with Portman, McGregor and Christensen they have given incredible performances. But even a good actor cna look bad with bad lines. Not always their fault.

    And Jason, the reason Boba Fett was so popular was simply because they treated him like a character with so much history when there was none. He was interesting because people wanted to find out what he was about since NOTHING was said about him. Aside from that he is not a very deep character on screen, just a whole lot of questions. How does Solo know him? Why is he among a handful of selected bounty hunters taking orders from Vader? Who is he?

    Boba and Jango Fett are pretty two dimensional on screen. Nothing special there.

    And people do stop to watch the rest of the movie when they trip over it on network television. I do.

    I still profess to love these films, and yes, I know of their shortcomings. I can even tell you a whole lot of them. But I can still enjoy Star Wars – any of them – without being distracted by them. THAT is what makes it magic.

  30. Oh … and I gotta throw in here that you really can’t blame the bad acting on Hayden Christiansen (sp?) … they guy’s actually a very talented young actor. He’s been very well received in everything else he’s ever done, it’s just that the lines he’s being given to deliver here are pretty bad. There’s not much anybody could do with them. Even McGregor comes off stiff and awkward, and he’s an amazing actor …

  31. Here is my problem…..I always feel disconnected from the Action because I KNOW it isn’t a set…..just a picture that the actors are playing around in front of…….Not that I haven’t seen that in other movies…I just rememeber the other Star Wars Movies with great fondness and there were not only characters that I cared about….but also SUB Characters I cared about…..why do you think SO Many people care about Jengo/Boba Fett? By far, the MOST Interesting character in the 1st two films……I can tell you….I am most delited to see the transformation of Vader….

  32. I am a fan of the Star Wars franchise….here is a ligitimate take on “if” the 1st two were good. When Star Wars,Empire or Jedi are on network TV and you come into it an Hour In…..do you finish watching it? Yes..I do. How about the other two? Case closed….bought the DVD but I only think I did that to complete the set….Hadden’s acting makes me wonder what Geoge was thinking. Hard to get past…

  33. The idea that ‘real fans’ will like anything put out by the person or franchise that they’re supposedly ‘real fans’ of is complete and utter crap. Total garbage. I don’t turn off my critical faculties just because I’ve enjoyed previous work by someone. Episode two was an improvement over one, but is still a LONG, LONG way away from being a good film and episode one is utter trash. Poorly scripted, poorly acted and completely disrespectful to the cosmology laid down in the original films, which is why the old-school hardcore fans were the people who got so up in arms over them in the first place. If anything the more serious fans are the ones invested enough in the franchise to actually care that the prequel trilogy hasn’t been up to snuff and make some noise about it …

    And Brandon … the Jedi title was changed before any of the marketing was released to the public, but not before they had printed up posters and things with the ‘Revenge’ title on them. I met a guy at last year’s TIFF who had ten or fifteen ‘Revenge of the Jedi’ posters sitting in storage not realizing how much they were worth.

  34. I’d be careful how you tout about “REAL” fans as if there’s a canonized fossil of what a real fan is like.

    Maybe a few fans out there HATED the first couple of episodes – like Edgar Wright for example.

    Someone who accepts every last scrap from Lucas’ table is definately a real fan, but that doesn’t mean that all die-hard fans accept everything from Lucas’ table.

    Much like “fans” will debate which is the “better” of the 4 – 6 episodes, indicating that there is a quality difference between some of them — very well indicates the human realm of possibily that there may be a quality difference in the first two episodes. And since there is no “mold” for a “real fan”, despite how convienient that would be for you, some die hard fans didn’t like Episode 1 or two or both. — I’m not saying I’m a die-hard fan, but there are fans out there that didn’t like them and are free to do so.

    I’m sure there’s a few people that are currently employed at Lucasfilm that hated Episode 1 to the point of issue… not that we’d know them or anything.

  35. Count me in on the underwhelmed camp; I see I’ve been able to convince you, KungFuGuy.

    I’ve got another question, though. Considering that I’m not as endowed in the age department to know, do any of you guys know when the old Revenge of the Jedi title was changed to Return of the Jedi? Before or after an “official announcement”? Just wondering if they could do another sneaky title swap this late into the game.

    Also: when did the first Revenge of the Nerds flick come out?

  36. I would have to say that the defining point between a REAL StarWars fan and just some movie goer who thinks they know a thing or two about StarWars is that they can see that the first two were not bad movies.

    Of course that is not to say that I profess these to be masterpieces worthy of an Oscar, but they are StarWars movies. They work.

    I loved these movies in SPITE of their flaws. That is a real fan, not just some bandwagon weenie in line on openning night just waiting to cut it up.

    And yes KungFuGuy, I do find this title anticlimactic. Not a lot to complain about except its lack of contraversy.

    This one makes sense BEFORE the movie comes out. Phantom Menace? Well it makes sense NOW!!!

    Anyways, you can cut these movies up all you want, the REAL fans know whats wrong with it and dont care. Its an empty battle.

  37. Couple thoughts guys and gals.
    Is anyone else a little underwhelmed by this title? I know it ties into the whole repeating pattern of the first trilogy but aren’t we all kind of like… i dunno… zuh? meh?
    Another thing. I know that the revenge line was the only line that Darth had but can anyone confirm if Ray Park actually said the lines in the movie and wasn’t overdubbed by another actor without a cockney accent?
    Er… not that I’m a fan of Star Wars… or anything like it… um… I’m going to go back and continuing writing my fan film treatment… yeah.

  38. Amen Brother John. I can always count on Johnny-wan to dig up some obscure star wars trivia just about as fast as myself.

    Darth Maul – Episode 1 “At last we can reveal ourselves to the Jedi; At last we can have our revenge” -it was even in the Trailer, and pretty much the only line Mr Maul spoke.

    As I read Bubba’s question about revenge, I was getting ready to scribe my well thought out response, only to read that John had posted those very words. We both are mindful of the living force.

    No one will play either of us in Star Wars Trivial pursuit.

  39. Allow me to show my geekdom here Bubba.

    ahem… the Sith had all but been wiped out by the Jedi and by internal fighting… as a matter of fact, the Jedi have thought the Sith WERE extinct.. but in fact they have been laying low… very low… for a long long time. Now they have “revealed themselved to the Jedi”, and are ready to take revenge.

    Isn’t it amazing I don’t get more dates?

  40. No problem with the Sith taking revenge – that’s perfectly in keeping with their character – but what are they supposed to be taking revenge for? Nobody’s done anything bad to them so far. I suppose the Sith in question could be Annakin, but nobody’s really done anything to him, either …

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