Star Trek Dissenters

In a recent post with more pictures from the New Star Trek there was a lot of people saying they looked good. I was one of them. I love the new look and I am eagerly awaiting this film.

However among the comments were these TWO concerns that stood out as negatives toward the film and I felt I wanted to address them here so we could discuss them.

Recasting

The feeling is that Kirk can ONLY be played by Shatner, and Nimoy is the only guy who can play Spock. The examples given were of situations where someone would replace the character in a sequel. The problem is that Kirk cannot be in a sequel since he died in Generations. There cannot BE another movie with Kirk in it. And Spock is playing himself, until he meets his younger self. (and Next Generation doesn’t deserve more after Nemesis – stupid Data subplot)

Back in the glory days of the Dukes of Hazzard we got some replacement “cousins” while Bo and Luke were written out of the story (contract negotiations) They were Coy and Vance Duke, and were practical clones of Bo and Luke. They were not accepted by the fans and eventually the original good old boys were back and all carried on as normal.

Recasting failures can be poor choices, but we don’t know that Pine and Quinto are poor choices.

Also, these are the characters in a completely different time in their lives, much like we accepted Daniel Craig in the role of Bond (even though he isn’t the same as the other Bond actors) we accept him for his portrayal of the role because that role IS different from the other Bond eras. They are not REPLACING Kirk and Spock, they are portraying a younger version.

This is not an issue of another actor trying to play Kirk in a sequel with Kirk in it. This is a different Kirk. A younger Kirk. And his life will be different from this point on based on the events of the movie, so this is a new Kirk. It doesn’t have to be the same.

When River Phoenix played a Young Indiana Jones, we were excited to see a glimpse of what Jones was like at a young age. (I would have loved to see a TV series or Movie franchise based around River Pheonix as Jones)

Too Young

Now there is a younger version of Kirk and Spock coming our way and people are automatically discounting them with ridiculous claims of “High School Musical Trek” and “Trek90210” and that is just grasping for a reason to hate it. These characters are not being played as teens. The actors are not teens. The story is not a kid story, just younger than we have seen them in other incarnations.

It is utterly ridiculous to assume the movie is about those things when it has never once been said that this movie will take place in their teenage years.

Keep in mind that Pine is 28 and Quinto is 31. And they are playing younger versions of a 37 year old Shatner’s Kirk, and Nimoy’s 35 year old Spock.

The argument is that Pine is too young to BE a starship Captain. I don’t recall there being an official guide that says in Starfleet, you have to be a certain age to be Captain. Guess what kids, canon says James Tiberius Kirk received his first Captain’s title at the ripe age of 31. That is close enough to Pine’s actual age of 28. So you have nothing to complain about there. If anything this is an appropriate aged actor to play the part of a Starfleet officer gaining his first command.

As for the rest of the cast. Well they are all older than Pine, so really there isn’t much to complain about there.

Adults playing the parts of adults, depicting a point in Star Trek history peiced together from canon throughout 10 movies. No issues.

Other issues

We don’t know for sure how it will play out, but according to canon Spock already served for 11 years under Captain Pike, which may very well be the case. This movie will start with Kirk getting command of the Enterprise, and perhaps Spock just comes with the command. It is also possible that since we already know that old Spock goes back in time to talk to his younger self. This might result in young Spock seeing Kirk out.

The colour of his shirt. Yeah, Kirk has a Black uniform instead of the deep yellow we commonly see him wearing in the original series. Its a shirt. Seriously. A shirt? If that is all you have to complain about then I would think you should be happy that you don’t have more to complain about.

Overall

In the big picture of it all these are all very minor things to complain about. This is not a remake, it is a sequel. Yes the sequel will mess with the time continuum and change history. But this is the best way to do a reboot and have that reboot become PART of the canon. The original is not ignored, just headed in a new direction.

I predicted this nearly two years ago and I am still waiting for my royalty cheque.

So enjoy Star Trek and save the silly kneejerk reaction to make up things about the movie that just doesn’t exist and we can focus our attention on real concerns. Which I am not seeing much of yet.

And that makes me happy.

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44 thoughts on “Star Trek Dissenters

  1. CWBarton… if you read above you would also see that I dont care WHY Star Trek died, just that it did.

    Everyone has their fingers pointed at someone. It doesn’t matter who you want to blame for it.

    And fans don’t “know best” because what might seem like a great idea for one fan would piss of 12 more. And what that 12 like would piss off 120 more. It doesn’t matter what you want… thats why people laugh at fanfic. Its embarrassing.

    Its dead. There is a new version coming out, clean slate, and it looks good. You don’t have to like it, but I suspect I will.

  2. “Then the TV series failed. The fanbase died off. No one cared about Star Trek continuing.”

    Well, not quite. No one cared about Paramount’s interpretation of Star Trek. And the fans kept telling Paramount, which kept responding “no, WE know best.”

    Obviously they didn’t. Their approach didn’t attract new fans, and drove the old ones away.

  3. “Where were those fans when the last three Star Trek movies flopped? Or when Enterprise was canceled ?”

    Those things happened BECAUSE Paramount ignored the fans, wouldn’t listen to them, and kept saying “no, we can ignore canon, need to take it ‘in a new direction’ to ‘attract new viewers,’ add more ‘action/special effects,’ make it less about excellent writing and plot and character development.”

    In other words, Paramount doesn’t seem to have learned that the fans DO know best.

    I’ve only seen the two trailers, so I guess I’ll have to withhold final judgement, but thus far I’m not impressed by anything I’ve seen.

  4. Your right Rodney (its all about the money), and if Nemesis would have been a huge hit they would have had to pay Berman & Co a big percentage of the cut,,, and put up with him for many more years…

    Please don’t pretend to know more about this than me. I work in this business…
    I can’t break it down for you, your gonna have to take my word for it ,,or not…
    Ether way I enjoy talking to you ,,, your the best writer this site has… :)

    Take that for what its worth. ;-). 790

  5. Your theory sounds a little too “conspiracy freak” inspired.

    Studios dont fuck with successful franchises. If there is potential to make money off of them, they will keep it going even if they think that the people making them a pile of money are complete assholes.

    Paramount is ALL about the dollars. They wouldnt mess with it if it was making them money.

    Also, the magazine was canceled because the fanbase wasn’t supporting it, not the other way around.

  6. Nemesis failed ultimately because Paramount wanted the Berman Braga team out,,, it was personal…
    Enterprise failed for the same reason,,, The 4th season the show started to kick ass, and Paramount killed it anyway,,,

    Paramount also cancelled the Star Trek fan magazine a few months after Enterprise was cancelled.

    Paramount killed Star Trek because they couldn’t get rid of Rick Berman, and Brannon Braga any other way, and they screwed the fans to do it,,,

    If it wasn’t for previous deals they would have killed off the novels as well,,,

    Paramount is to blame.

  7. The franchise was already dead. After Nemesis, it was already decided that another movie wasn’t going to happen.

    Then the TV series failed. The fanbase died off. No one cared about Star Trek continuing. There was nothing left. The fans huddled in their secluded masses and reminisced about how good it once was with their collections. And that nostalgia only lasts so long.

    Its funny that the same arguement was used when they proposed a Next Generation, and that turned out to be 10 times more successful than the original series. More relevant and brought fans back into the fold. It more or less ignored TOS, skipping ahead 150 years. How is this any different to go back and start over.

    It had to be rebooted. It needed fresh blood and fresh ideas. They tried everything with the franchise and there was nothing left to do. Their only options were to do a next next generation, or go back to the beginning. They thought the prequel idea was horrible until they saw the potential behind a time paradox starting it over.

    You can blame whoever you want if it fails, but the franchise already failed. There has been nothing new in years. It doesn’t hurt to use a clean plate when supper was ruined already. If this turns out to be a bomb, its no less dead than it is right now. This is the PERFECT time to do this.

  8. Well I understand you pov, but its going to be interesting how the term re-imaging will change if the films a bomb…

    As a Star Trek fan, wiping the slate clean is a huge mistake…
    To the hardcore fans, its a slap in the face of all the Star Trek shows that came after TOS,,, those same shows that live on (profit wise) in novel form…

    The slight changes could be enough to make some fans, walk out… Abrams is risking it all on this gambit… (I love the pressure)

    If this film is a failure, I will blame Paramount, and Abrams… They of course will blame the hardcore fans for abandoning the franchise…

    Paramount, and to some extent Abrams are totally disconnected from the fans (IMO)
    Star Trek 11, will have an uphill battle against Terminator 4,,, its gonna be fun to watch this unfold…

  9. No. I dont “know” this is a prequel or I wouldnt have called it a sequel that is also a reboot.

    Just because it takes place in the past, doesnt mean its a prequel. Now if there was no timetravel to it and they didnt change history… then it would be a prequel. A prequel is a work that prefigures a later work, as by portraying the same characters at a younger age. This is a younger age of the characters, but since portraying it cancels out the later work, it is disqualified by definition as a prequel.

    And no.. they are not going to carry on a story past nemesis if this is a hit because that timeline will be drastically altered… for all we know a Next Generation will look completely different too.

    Butterfly effect. This is a reboot while not ignoring (but not restricted by) the existing series. Its the best of both worlds.

  10. Come on Rodney,,, you and I both know this IS a prequel, no matter what type of time-travel link they establish to the Next Gen timeline…

    If this films a hit they’re not gonna follow Spock back to Romulus post Nemesis,,, :-)
    Its going to follow Kirk and Co, before the 5 year Mission if not expand on it,,,

    That’s a prequel folks!!!!!!!

  11. Shatner’s idea was simply a prequel story. This is NOT a prequel. This whole storyline is going to have the freedom to do whatever they want because they mess with time.

    And just because you can make up a silly reference to abbreviate his works doesn’t mean they are bad. You could take the best movie in existence and make up a snarky description to make it sound lame.

    I think this movie will be a big hit and will reinvigorate this dead franchise. It has a lot more going for it than visuals.

  12. I think the Black Shirt rocks. I mean seriously, in a scenario where shirt color indicates rank of some sort, why would the captain, the commander of the ship, wear the same color as any one on the ship. I think he should be wearing a different color, and black makes him look bas ass…

  13. Well Rodney, William Shatner first came up with the Kirk and Spock Academy story idea years ago… I was there 4 years ago at the Star Trek Convention in Pasadena when he brought it up to the fans in attendance. He said that Paramount liked the idea but they were concerned that the story focused too heavily on Starfleet Academy subject matter, and didn’t want to focus on Kirks dating habits…

    At the time Shatner said he was going to write the story anyway into novel form…

    Reguardless Paramount took the germ of that idea and looked for a Director that could expand on that theme.
    Enter the JJ,,,

    Personally I’m sure JJ, is a nice guy but I’m not a fan of his films or tv shows.

    Cloverfield = Blair witch vs Godzilla
    Lost = Gilligans Island vs Survivor vs Twilight zone.
    Fringe = X-files vs Lone Gunman.
    Mi3 is just a bad film.

    I know that Lost has a lot of fans, but so does Hannah Montanna,,,

    The one saving grace this new Star Trek film will have is the visual effects. I will agree that I’ll prob go see it, however I still wish they had gone beyond Voyagers timeline with a new crew, and ship,,,
    Seeing Kirk and Spock up there again as younger crewmen just seems like a huge lack of real creativity. Please don’t bore me with, “there’s no great stories set after Voyager”. I’ve personally read a few Star Trek scripts that make “Star Wars, the Empire Strikes Back” seem lame…

    All I can say is good luck Abrams. If the film dosnt do Iron Man figures he’s gonna look real bad,,,

  14. @790, I do take credit for the story in that I had the idea first. I posted what I thought would be a good idea for the franchise 14 months before they leaked the premise and it was exactly the same as mine. I am not saying they read my post, but obviously I am behind them for going in that direction because I was thinking the same thing.

    Cloverfield is the bottom of the JJ barrel. And he has a lot of success with a lot of different shows and movies which speaks to how versatile he is. He didn’t “lift” anything with Cloverfield. There are lots of “giant monster movies” and he wanted to take a stab at the genre. That is all.

  15. Good points Box,,, ;-)

    Rodney, JJ is a hack, that’s an opinion as well. His best film to date is Cloverfield and even that was lifted.
    You sure seem to defend Abrams like you were somehow involved in the production… (Kinda comical bro)

    JJ Apeman, offended me when he decided to cop-out and play ball with Paramount. They wanted this Kirk & Spock reboot. He was the one they picked to do it…

    Paracrap is who I blame for the horrible bridge, the starfleet academy bs, and the WAY TO YOUNG crew…
    Bite me, I’m a long term Trek fan,,, and I still think this is lame!

  16. David, perhaps you should have read the article. They are not “kids”

    I am sure it is a compliment to someone in their early 30s to be called a kid again since they havent heard it in a long time but this cast is not a bunch of kids.

  17. Oh and for the record, I’m not picking on this movie one bit. I’m only a fan of the first 3 movies and nothing else…and I’m personally pretty excited to see how this movie pans out. i’m hoping this gives Simon Pegg that leg up in the American film circuit cause he needs it after doing two decent movies that were barely noticed. So yeah, can’t wait to see this.

  18. The eyebrow placement on the new Spock sort of bugs me…it looks awkward. It’s funny but to me, young actors in this generation look like kids compared to the young actors of the older generation. Anyone else agree?

  19. I said the MOVE was genius. I didnt say he was. And Britney (and her management) are genius even if you dont like her. She has a great deal of success DESPITE what you think of her. She has more money than any of us could ever hope to achieve.

    And just because someone shoots off their mouth addressing the antisocial basement dewelling drooling fanboys doesnt detract from their accomplisments.

    No matter how long your comments get you just keep repeating the same thing. You dont like abrams. And that is you problem.

    JJ hasn’t insulted anyone. You are the one taking offense to a statement made months ago that no one cared about. Seriously. Exhale.

  20. Genius is a stretch and also your opinion and we know what those are like, everyone has one. I for one don’t care for most of JJ’s past projects except for Lost, which I think is great TV. Saying he’s a genius because he’s been successful doesn’t hold water. By your rational, does that make Brett Ratner a genius too? Or Britney Spears? They are both very successful but I’m sure most of us can agree that they suck. And Crom help us if Ratner directs the new Conan movie…
    As for fans not supporting certain Trek shows or films, people are aloud to not like or support parts of something while still enjoying other parts. It’s not the fans fault that those last few trek projects sucked. We could argue about this until the movie comes out. I think the actors look good in their roles. I think some of what I’ve seen looks cool while other parts don’t. I’m not happy about the radical bridge redesign or mucking with cannon to the point that it’s a whole new time line. The classic trek time line laid out plenty of opportunities to create new stories using the original characters without changing or ignoring what was already there. I didn’t expect the set design to look exactly the same as TOS, but I was hoping to at least be able recognize the enterprise bridge in a way that relates to the original show other then “look Kirk is sitting in what could be the captain’s chair in a future Hair salon…” Bottom line, JJ needs to show the trek fans a little love and stop calling us all losers with no lives just because we’re worried about him screwing up something we love dearly. He should also stop bad mouthing TOS if he wants the fans to get behind him on this. Oh wait, I forgot he doesn’t care about what the fans think because nobody supported nemesis or the Enterprise tv show and trek is dead, blaa fucking blaa…. :(
    That’s cool JJ. Insult the fans, tell us what we enjoy is just silly, and here as if that isn’t enough, make us eat your own personal shit sandwich version of what you think trek should be like. Cause according to some people you’re a flipping genius.
    Now that is ridiculous and silly.
    Also I could care less about Kirks black shirt. I’m sure that will have something to do with the story.

  21. I for one am really looking forward to this film. I’ve been a Trek fan since I was 8 and I am 32 now. I am married and DO NOT LIVE IN MY PARENTS BASEMENT. I think JJ was making a point that you are not going to be able to please everybody. Star Trek will benefit greatly from a fresh approach. People just need to keep an open mind.

  22. @Box, JJ is the farthest thing from a hack. He has a long list of successful movies and tv series to his name that span a wide variety of styles and themes. He is very versatile.

    Furthermore, you think he has a lack of respect to “fans and the property which the fans have supported for 40+ years” Where were those fans when the last three Star Trek movies flopped? Or when Enterprise was canceled ? The largest Trek convention in Canada had 2 trek guests and changed its name to attract all sorts of scifi attenders instead.

    Sorry my friend, Star Trek died and this is the best plan of action to revive excitement in the series. There are hardcore loons that fit that stereotype that JJ refers to.

    And those will be the continuing viewers of this franchise. The series is not a remake, this is a continuation, it is just continuing from the beginning.

    It is genius (thanks to JJ for taking my advice) and reboots the series while still being a valid sequel.

  23. The stereotype of the Star Trek/sci-fi nerd is BS. JJ and his team of hacks constantly throw that in our collective faces every single time they talk about their version of Trek and how it relates to the fans of trek or anytime some fan asks a cannon question. I take that as a lack of respect toward the fans and the property which the fans have supported for 40+ years. Neither I nor any of my friends live in their parents basement and they all have regular very productive lives outside of enjoying sci-fi, comics and movies.
    Imagine one of your favorite things, whatever that is, being remade, and the person remaking it says “I never really liked this thing. I always thought it was silly, and I don’t really care about the people who do like it cause you’re all nerds with no life. I’m just going to do it my way.”
    See. How does that feel?
    The movie is shot, it’s a done deal. I hope it’s good. That’s all.

  24. Rodney: I like your analogy about watering trees, and it’s exactly right. Methinks FinalJoe must have never owned a plant in his life..!

  25. I’ve never been into Star Trek (star wars for me) except DS9 the rest of it i don’t like BUT i’m actually finding myself looking forward to the new film o.O

  26. I really get a kick out of the people out there, who are it picking about the stupidest things, waaah the uiforms aren’t right, waaah the actors are too young, etc.

    The simple fact of the matter is, until an actual trailer is shown, how can anyone make a judgement about how bad or good this film will be. Also there have been several actors from past Trek shows that have stated that the franchise has to go in an entirely different direction, and let new blood pump life into it.

    Your guesses are as good as mine, whether or not J.J. Abrams can revive the Star Trek universe, but at least I’m not that pre-judgemental before actually seeing something from the film. I mean how many times have we heard fans complain about changes to a character, and how it’s going to ruin the movie, an example of that was the shit storm that flew when Sam Raimi decided to have his Peter Parker have organic webbing instead of webshooters, OMG did it ruin the film, hell no.

    Sure Paramount could make a new series set after TNG and DS9, but the simple fact is that someone needs to take the franchise into new directions, come up with new and original ideas and quit rehashing the same old episodes, I like to think that I’m a rock solid fan, but I’m also willing to be open minded to new interpretations of the origianl series if it’s smartly written.

    So to all of those whiners out there, just relax take it easy, lets wait until we actually see some footage before freaking out, who knows you justmight be pleasnatly surprised!!!!!!!!!!!!

  27. “And if you have seen any other Shatner performances both PRE and POST Star Trek you’ll see that Kirk is 80% Shatner 20% Kirk.”

    I’m one of the hugest Shatner fans there are, and I do not see that when watching any of his other roles. You seem to be one of those Kirk uber-fans that refuse to admit that Kirk and Shatner are two separate people.

  28. FinalJoe, his TJ Hooker role was not like Kirk. And his more recent role on Boston Legal is not like Kirk at all either. Furthermore when he is himself in interviews and on his video blog, he is nothing like Kirk.

    Testimony to his acting ability.

    And watering a tree IS harder than planting it. You have to be there on a regular schedule, bring water to the location, not let anything else interfere in the schedule lest the tree suffer… while planting it is a single act. Your attempt at analogy is flawed.

    Writing something brand new and interesting is a blank slate. Having to research through 40 years of fandom to make it work right is a daunting task and usually requires a team of consultants.

    I can write a story. (Currently I am writing a novel). And I can do anything I want with it. If I was writing a Star Trek story or reboot even, I would have to do a month of research to make it convincing enough to appeal to the existing fanbase and draw in new blood.

    The only thing easy about writing sequels or material based on an existing is that the studios are more willing to take a chance on it since it already has a market appeal.

  29. Slushie Man: If you listen to anyone who worked on TOS talk about it you’ll heard them talking about the great deal of input the actors had on the characters. This is one of the reasons why Nimoy and Shatner were able to get directing gigs on the movies.

    And if you have seen any other Shatner performances both PRE and POST Star Trek you’ll see that Kirk is 80% Shatner 20% Kirk.

  30. Hey FinalJoe:

    Creativity is not an issue here. I’ve always contended that reimagining or adapting pre-existing material often takes even more creativity than coming up with something from scratch.

  31. ““only nerds who live in their parents basement are the ones complaining”. That is an insult to all of fandom every where and those dudes can fuck off and die for saying it! Who the fuck do they think they are?”

    Truth hurts, doesn’t it? Seriously, your attitude is even more immature then his and is only proving his point IMO.

  32. So, you like it, hope its great and look forward to it. And your problem is that you dont like the director?

    Would you get upset if your asshole neighbour saved your house from being burned down?

    He doesnt have to LIKE the original Star Trek to reboot it. He just has to get it. And he does.

  33. My complaint, the way JJ dick face talks about the original series. No respect what-so-ever. This quote right here sums up his view of TOS.

    “For me, the costumes were a microcosm of the entire project, which was how to take something that’s kind of silly and make it feel real. But how do you make legitimate those near-primary color costumes? How do you make legitimate the pointy ears and the bowl haircut? It’s ridiculous and as potentially clichéd as it gets. How do you watch Galaxy Quest and then go make a Star Trek movie?”

    If you have to question how to make a Trek movie because of Galaxy Quest (which I liked) then you shouldn’t be making a Star Trek film. If JJ douche bag thinks the original series was silly and ridiculous then why is he allowed to make a Star Trek film? If he’s such a fancy pants writer/director/producer then why doesn’t he write/direct/produce something new and fresh (not a godzilla rip off) instead of going back too something that a lot of folks love and have fond memories for? Did the original show have some cheese factor? Sure, but it’s also still being re run and people still watch it = love it after 40 years! There is a reason for that. Because it was fine the way it was. Do I want the new movie to rule? Of course I do. Do I hate everything I’ve seen so far? No, some of it looks cool. It just scares and angers me when JJ “Alias sucks balls” Abrams talks shit about TOS and then is handed the keys to Trek City. Remakes suck. Make new original movies/TV or fuck off. Leave the good stuff ALONE!
    Just for the record, I’m married, own my own home and have a very busy life outside of being a SCI-FI Trek fan. I say that because JJ fucktard and his (transformers sucks ass) writing team have repeatedly said that “only nerds who live in their parents basement are the ones complaining”. That is an insult to all of fandom every where and those dudes can fuck off and die for saying it! Who the fuck do they think they are? They wouldn’t have jobs if it wasn’t for us, the FANS!

  34. And for the record, Shatner wasn’t THAT great in the role. It wasn’t until the 90’s people really started idolizing him as much as they do.

  35. “When we watch Kirk we are watching Shatner.”

    No, you aren’t. I can’t count the amount of times that Shatner himself has gone on record to try to get people away from that kind of thinking. The charisma, personality and uniqueness, as you put it, were all KIRK, written that way in the script and Shatner was DIRECTED that way by the director. He is NOTHING like that in real life, and Shatner himself is the first one to freak out on fans that think otherwise.

    And your rational does not hold up with the James Bond comparison. The Bond of the books is TOTALLY different from the movies. The movie Bond and the literary Bond are two complete different characters, so that makes your argument totally pointless, becuase the movie Bond is NOT based off the novel Bond, beyond the fact he’s a secret agent of 007 status. That’s it.

    “If the sperm that is portraying him in Star Kids has half the charisma, personality and uniqueness of Shatner”

    Yes, cause people in their 30’s are kids…

  36. The difference between Bond and Kirk and Spock is that Bond is a well written character taken from a literary source. Connery’s Bond is an interpetation of that character. So is Moore’s and Brosnan’s and so on.

    Bond is great not because of Connery or any other one actor but because of his character traits.

    Kirk and Spock however are not great characters as written on the page. All the screenwriters had them do was spout technobable at each other. However Shatner and Nimoy brought those characters to life by their own personalities. When we watch Kirk we are watching Shatner. If you watch TOS and any of the original movies the best part is the interaction between the characters and it is well-documented that that was down to the actors.

    If the sperm that is portraying him in Star Kids has half the charisma, personality and uniqueness of Shatner I’ll learn Klingon and offer Jar Jar Abrams an olive branch of war.

    “The problem is that Kirk cannot be in a sequel since he died in Generations. ”

    Exactly! Leave him alone and stop vulturing his carcass!

  37. People just like to have something to complain about. Seriously, I cannot think of one single movie in the last 5 years, that doesn’t have loads of hate directed towards it by the Online community. Yes, even The Dark Knight has quite a lot of haters out there.

    I’ve just learned to ignore it all. As long as I like the movie, that’s all that’s important to me and the rest of the world can kiss my ass if they don’t like that.

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