Virginia Tech – Violence in Media – Perpetual Ignorance

Oldboy-ComparisonIt is one of the unfortunate truths of the world in which we live. There is evil. There is violence. There is a desperate search for meaning in them both, and there is ignorance shared by all with none who accept any responsibility for the way things are. We search for answers, but the search is never in our own yards. The search is always on someone else, something else or someway else… never on the persons, things or ways that we ourselves associate with.

The tragedy of the Virginia Tech atrocity goes well beyond what happened at the school. We mourn even more than just the innocent victims of the crime… we are left also to mourn the way things are. We are forced, yet again, to face the reality of the world we live in, to acknowledge that we do not live in a Utopia where “I’m ok, You’re ok” is a valid philosophy of life. And it seems our natural human reaction, is to look for who is to blame. We want a fall guy. One person, thing or “way” that we can lay the blame down for all the horrors that we see around us.

The desire to find causes behind that which is wrong is a nobel one. A culture shouldn’t just turn a blind eye to itself decaying. But the tragedy continues when no one really wants to find the answer… we all just want an answer that doesn’t have anything to do with us.

So here we are still just days after the incident at Virginia Tech and we’re rushing trying to find answers. By now all of you have probably seen the picture of the bastard who did it, holding up a hammer, almost resembling an image from the film “Oldboy”. You’ve also seen and heard people rushing to wonder if the movie itself (or violence in modern media in general) is to blame. Some people who already have a political axe to grind are jumping at the chance to point the finger at Hollywood and Video games. “Movies made him do it!” they’ll proclaim and cry out. “Watching a man kill other people in a movie is what pushed him to commit his crimes”.

The absurdity of those statements is obvious. Just another example of someone wanting to point the finger at anything other than themselves and what they do, who they are and how their ways may have been contributing factors. It’s just safer to point the finger at Media for them, because then they’re not implicated in anyway by extension or morally. Pointing the finger is a safe thing to do.

But wait. Just as there is an unfounded, self serving rush to point the finger at “Oldboy” and violence in media, there appears to be an equally unfounded, self serving rush to dismiss the idea that the media we consume has ANYTHING to do with it, or had any part to play. Movie and video game fans have been summarily rejecting the idea for the same reasons other are endorsing them. Self serving, safer to point the finger somewhere else other than on ourselves or the things we embrace or believe in.

No one seems to want to put any real thought or consideration into it. “Just blame violent movies!” or… “Violence in movies have NOTHING to do with it!” We think we want answers… but the truth is we only want answers that already fit into our existing world view. Anything outside of that world view we dismiss instantly without thought or consideration.

Here’s an example of what I’m talking about. What I’m about to tell you is probably the funniest thing I’ve ever seen in my life:

A couple of years ago i was living in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada and Marilyn Manson was scheduled to come to town for a concert, and that got a lot of the locals upset. It was a city wide controversy. So one day the local News had the reporter going around on the streets asking people what they thought of it… now this is the funny part…

He comes across this kid (probably about 17) dressed all in black, white makeup covering his face with dark eyeliner, hair long, oily and dyed midnight black. The kid was surrounded by 3 or 4 other teens dressed in the same manner. The kid looks into the camera and says “No I’m not influenced by the music I listen too. That’s a stupid question”.

At first I thought it was a joke or that maybe the kid was being sarcastic. But he was serious. He really 100% honestly believed that the music he listened to had ZERO influence on him. He was completely oblivious to the fact that it influenced even the most simple things such as how he dressed (not that there was anything wrong with the way he dressed), how he formed his appearance (not that there was anything wrong with his appearance) and even the people he hung out with (not that there was anything wrong with the other teens he was hanging out with). The music he listed to didn’t influence him at all? It influenced just about EVERYTHING about him that could be observed. But he, like most of us, stuck his head in the sand so never to see any truth or validity in things that don’t already fit within our own world view.

Did violence in movies and video games have ANYTHING at all to do with the tragedy at Virginia Tech? Personally I don’t think so. However, I do think in our long hard search for answers we shouldn’t be so quick to dismiss the idea or reject at least the discussion…. just as we shouldn’t be so quick to point fingers at it and blame the media. Both the extremes embrace ignorance.

We all need to be open to the idea that maybe violence in movies and video games had absolutely NOTHING to do with this tragedy. We also have to be open that MAYBE it did in some way, shape or form. When something as real and horrible as this comes along, we need to be willing to set aside our already emotionally invested points of view and just honestly look for answers. That’s hard. That’s tough. That hurts. And that’s why no one will actually do it.

But it just goes to show you once again… no one really wants real answers… we all just want answers that comfortably fit into our own personal existing world view. Anything that falls outside of that we label as just evil… or nonsense.

Oh well, enough with the reality. I’m off to the movies.

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64 thoughts on “Virginia Tech – Violence in Media – Perpetual Ignorance

  1. While talking about gun control might seem “on topic” it is a topic fraught with more variables than the one that was originally the basis, which is how violence in the media affects us.

    Maybe giving someone access to a gun makes it easier to act on those violent impulses. I highlight the maybe. But the fact is I hate gun control debates because nobody is willing to look at things logically, or even see what the other side has to say.

    They make their decision, based almost entirely on THEIR environment and upbringing (and I admit being partially guilty of that because I was raised by a police officer, who taught me respect for the gun as a weapon, not a tool or a toy. A weapon). Once someone makes their decision there is no dissuading them, look at this debate, it’s certainly happening here.

    I have a diagnose mental illness. Years ago, when I was in college, a doctor put me on anti-depressents. Not because I was a danger to myself or others, but because I couldn’t concentrate and wasn’t going to graduate if I didn’t do something. Most people in this debate would say that automatically invalidates my ability to use a gun properly.

    However, I also have years of experience with firearms, and as I said I was taught to respect them as a weapon. They’re like a sword, a staff, a knife. Yes, their purpose can be ugly, but at the same time their purpose can be to kill a deer to feed the homeless. Hunters are almost always responsible firearm users, and unless you are a vegetarian, then you have to recognize the value of hunting.

    Cho may have purchase his firearms legally, but the boys in Columbine did not. Cho also entered campus where a weapons ban was in effect, and while this does not qualify as illegal (that point is up for debate in other forums, I haven’t found a consensus) he did break the rules. If the rules we have aren’t producing the desired results, why would making more rules fix that problem? People who are willing to kill others are often more than willing to break whatever laws they like, and there will always be oppurtunities for them to do so. There are hosts of illegal drugs in America, and yet our drug problem is just as difficult to deal with. Prostitution is for the most part illegal, and yet it still occurs every day across the country.

    These are all points that I wager will be ignored by anyone responding to what I have just said. Gun control is a yes or no answer to the country right now, there are no grey areas.

    Violence in the media however, there are grey areas, people are becoming more willing to think and contemplate the effect. And you can in fact have a debate about violence in the media and it’s impact on us, while not getting into gun control and that side of the law. It might be interlaced, but the simple question is this:

    Does watching or seeing a violent image increase our desires or likelihood to commit violence? My answer is no. I think the desire must be there already, a violent image cannot create violence. But I think it can greatly change the violence that is already there.

  2. I’m taking a thought originally spouted by Marilyn Manson here, but if people are willing to blame an hour and a half long movie for the violence – It makes just as much sense to say “Hey, he’s living in a country where the leaders leads a false war resulting in hundreds of thousands dead.” That’s a pretty violent scenario and is certainly more personally involving. Oh, but hey, let’s not be ridiculous, let’s blame Old Boy instead.
    Meanwhile CNN still hasn’t shut up about it. Did anyone blame CNN for the copycat guy?

  3. Jaysmack: The horror-comedy Idle Hands also got some blame for Columbine as well, although unfairly. It’s true Matrix was out at the time, and much was made about Klebold/Harris’ own video diary, where they wanted thier ‘film’ to be ‘directed by (Quentin)Tarintino or (Steven) Speilberg’. The media focused on Tarintino like a hound on a chaingang escapee; and then when the”Media blame” died out, it was “the parents”.

    It’s the trickle down effect in most tragedes. First, it’s God Tld Me To. Then, The Devil Made Me Do It. When that fails, music, games and movies. Then it’s the parents, then, society. Not once does the left (or right) media ever say, “You know, the guy had mental problems, a judge turned him loose, he starts files, stalks women and writes poetry about hacking up people with chainsaws, then goes to the shooting range….maybe it’s just hs fault”.

  4. Jaysmack nice article but The Matrix was released on March 31 1999 the Columbine massacre happened on April 20th 1999 so Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold did see the film.

  5. Jaysmack, you probably just posted the best comment in here.

    Congratulations. I was intimidated by it’s length at first but it is well presented and well thought out.

  6. In these kind of incidents the problem is clearly access to guns.. Every culture is going to have psychos/fanatics etc who wish to carry out atrocities.. things like murder rates and all that might be related to culture but I can’t help thinking when someone goes loon, the fact they already have/can easily get a gun makes a bigger difference than if they’ve watched the matrix that week

  7. Someody pinch me, I actually find John’s commentary pretty eloquent. I agree with most of it.

    I have to disagree in one regard though. The blame must be solely placed on the killers in these cases and nowhere else. Nobody put a gun in Cho’s hand and told him to kill. He went out and bought those guns and made the decision on murder. Every other culture on earth has been exposed to American media, yet the US leads the world in gun violence, putting the lie to the right-wing motto: more guns means less crime. If that were true the US would be the safest country on earth. We’re not.
    Nor is gun ownership alone the issue. Canada has widespread gun ownership, they’re the US’s closest first-world neighbor and they don’t have the problem America does.
    Is it movies and video games fault then? Japanese culture saturates children in nudity and violence yet they don’t have these kinds of massacres, because hundreds of years ago Emperor Toyotomi (it wasn’t Tokugawa, I don’t think) instituted a weapons ban on swords that carried over to the introduction of the firearm in Japan. Japan realized hundreds of years ago that their culture had a huge problem and that obviously wiedspread weapon ownership would lead to a bloodbath. The solution worked. Yes, I know the mayor of Nagasaki was killed (organized crime has long been able to smuggles weapons into japan) but that’s one guy dead, compared to 32 in Virginia.

    American culture has the same problems these killers do. The first being that nobody is responsible for their actions or their lack of actions. The kids who shot up Columbine did so before The Matrix came out, but because they wore long black coats The Matrix (predictably) got the blame, since it premiered soon after the slaughter. In truth they were wearing dusters, not long coats, so Tombstone was most likely the movie they were emulating. These “Blame the Movies” zealots can’t even lay the blame right.
    When John Hinkley shot president Reagan he claimed Jodi Foster told him to do it.
    The Son of Sam claimed his dog told him to do it.
    And when a dog or favorite actress isn’t available as a scapegoat these killers instead turn to pornography or history books, but more typically they turn to the bible.
    Why is it that so many killers obsess over the bible yet nobody ever suggests we outlaw or ban the bible? In the bible you’ll find tons of examples of mass slaughter, entire cities wiped out by God, satanic armies or plagues. Daughters getting their fathers drunk so they can commit incest on him, patricide, children butchered by pagan nations. The bible is one of the most violent and prurient books ever written. And Cho apparently read it, and wrote “Ishamael Ax” on his arm. Ishamel was the son of Abraham and was described as a wild ass of a man who would be at war with the world his whole life. So why does the bible never come up when it’s time to discuss getting rid of the violent media that inspires these killers, while video games and movies reamin squarely in the crosshairs, when clearly the bible is as big, if not a bigger, influence on these idiots?
    Food for thought.

    America’s an entertaintainment-obsessed culture, no two ways about it. We drown in non-stop coverage of our GODS, actors, politicians and business tycoons, given coverage as if as one of them were God himself. Their every utterance is covered as though it were important, and we as a nation want to be worshipped too by the networks and newpapers and magazines and by crowds at movie premieres. As a nation we live through the media now and the Holy Grail has become to get our 15 minutes, by any means possible. In Los Angeles people deliberately lead the police on high-speed chases just so they can get on TV. It says a lot about just how many people feel inconsequential and are desperate to get attention quick. Now of that huge number of misfits, how many become furious about this mass denial of their existence (which they all describe as being “persecution”) and begin to feel fury and finally decide to do something about it?
    Banning all the movies and video games on earth won’t fix that.
    In the last fifteen years there’s arisen a culture among the malcontents and misfits in Ameirca that is based on delusions of persecution. Rather than seeing themselves as the dysfunctional misfits they are, instead they retreat into denial, immerse themselves in thier mental fantasy world where they see themselves as beleaguered heroes under constant assault (which usualyl takes the form of being genreally ignored) by a hostile and decadent society. They see all these people around them enjoying life, peolpe who wnt nothing to do with the killers. In short order the killers twist society’s legitimate joy at living into mass “debauchery.”
    These lunatics have extremely rich fantasy lives, made moreso by the fact they can’t function in the real one and nobody can stand being around them. In their minds they have a messiah complex, which due to their anger at being such hopeless misfits inevitably converts to a Samson complex: “I’m a great hero, brought low by a nation of degenerates! So I’m going to die and I’m going to take as many of ‘them’ as I can with me.”
    Since they live in thier mental fantasy worlds what occurs there becomes more valid than anything happening in the real one. These people run this scenario in their minds a million times, kind of like how the media runs their violent acts over and over, beyond all sanity. In their minds they’ve already seen the media circus follwing thier slaughters. The endless attention they’ll get, the glory they were so unjustly denied. Finally the world that rejected them will have no choice but to pay attention to them now and be sorry they ever ignored them.
    Since mass attention is what these killers want, and the media coverage of these slaughters is as obsessive as the killer thmselves, and guaranteed to give them fame if not infamy, it was only a matter of time until American culture produced someone like Cho. Mentally deranged, but technically savvy. He shot up his school, but not before sending an electronic press kit to NBC (who was guaranteed to show it because they are fourth in the ratings among the major networks). NBC called the FBI to get the materials, but not before making copies of the video, and copies of the photos so they could broadcast them unimpeded. It says a lot that a madman could game the system and further victimize the families of the slain because he knew the media would do what it always does during/after some horrible mass killing -engage in what amounts to public masturbation by going over the gory details ad nauseum, then over every tidbit about the killer/killers and anything they may have left as clues.

    We’ve seen enough mass slaughters in the US to know by now there’s nothing to be learned from reading/observing the whining selfish carpings these lunatics leave behind, and yet that’s exactly what the media did. Both Brian Williams of NBC and Robin Roberts of ABC both gave the standard media line when explaining why they were going to show Cho ranting, “We want to delve into why someone would do something like this. Delve into the mind of a killer.”
    PLEASE! These killers minds are about as deep as a birdbath. They’re the most facile, superficial shallow people imaginable. They’re rantings all sound exactly the same, whether it’s Sirhan Sirhan, or John Wayne Gacy or Klebold and Harris. But it helps the media milk the story for another news cycle, fill the airwaves with something “newsworthy,” which apparently means whatever disgusts decent people the most.
    I agree that these mass murderes idolize violent movies, or immerse themselves in violent vidoe games, but let’s not let that become a scapegoat. The snipe in the Texas Bell Tower didn’t play video games, nor did he watch violent movies, so what set him off?
    Jack the Ripper butchered women to death in the late 19th century, what movies was he watching?
    Nobody wanted to take repsonbiliity for stopping cho before he became violent. Nobody wanted to be inconvenieced. The women he stalked reported it to the cops, but never filed charges afterwards. The court that judged him as a danger to himself and others never reached out to other government organs to stop him. When he set a fire in his dorm room he wasn’t expelled or arrested. The university guidance counselor and staff were afraid of Cho, but not enough to demand en masse the school expel him.
    The problem is cultural, and the issue revolves around the mifsits in society. It revolves around how America has come to make urband legends and folk heroes of murderes. Those unable to create will try to gain fame through destrcution. And stopping them is everyone’s repsonsibility. People can’t afford to take the, “I just don’t want to be BOTHERED” attitude. The warning signs for these freaks are there.
    In the US you can’t become a police officer until you undergo a polygraph and a mental evaulation. The state doesn’t give cops a gun without those safeguards. We need to do the same for all firearms in the US. If you fail the test, you don’t get so much as a water pistol.
    That would be a start. From there let’s stop glorifying these bastards when they do these things, stop obesssing over their post-slaughter scribblings and demented video diaries. These killers anticipate the media coverage and that’s how one slaughter inspires the next.
    Change the culture and we can start to get the lid back on this thing.

  8. OK, let me rephrase my question: How come the US has so many “psycho shootings” in schools etc compared to countries like Sweden, UK, Switzerland etc when we are all exposed to the same movies, video games, music etc?

    Could there be any relation to the lacking gun control? Or is it just that the european culture is so much different from the US culture?

    And Meiran, please note that this post must be on topic since it brings up the movies and media effects, but broadens the perspective, which is needed to do since these Psychos are not driven by one sole factor like a violent movie or even the broader notion of violent media. They are a product of their environment as well as their biology. If you put a gun in the hands of a psycho, be prepared for the devastating results compared to putting a knife in his or her hands.

    Maybe you should at least demand that all people purchasing/using guns go through some kind of sanity test? Problem with that is that people change over time…

  9. Beautifully well written article John.

    Great Stuff.

    I think we already know the answer. And it comes down to the plain old fact that human beings have a pretty dark obsession with violence. It’s the way it is. And the problem is, when we admit this, a lot of people who aren’t open to the concept of flaws, they shit themselves and sticker the blame on to films that try and expose and point out this violence.

    Take Manhunt, the PS2 game for example. Real masterpeice, real dark peice of videogamage. It looked way deep into why we have this obsession with violence, and why we like to kill countless countless cannon fodder in games. It was about snuff movies. And its morals were 100 per cent in the right place. But of course, the media weren’t happy, and then they blamed a tragedy of a young boy killing his friend on that.

    This guy had problems, his life and what happened to him and how he was raised played a much bigger role in this tragedy than any hammer-scene ever would.

  10. BTW-Nice job turning this post and comment space into something completly not what the original intent was.

    This wasn’t talking about gun control at all. The intent was to discuss if the media and movies have an effect on our behavior.

    I was actually quite interested to see what people had to say about it. I’ll have to settle with the well thought out and worded original entry I suppose.

  11. Donald, Jarek

    Murder by firearms;

    #8 United States: 0.0279271 per 1,000 people

    #19 Switzerland: 0.00534117 per 1,000 people

    #32 United Kingdom: 0.00102579 per 1,000 people

    Burglaries (lets not be accused of bias);

    #7 United Kingdom: 13.8321 per 1,000 people

    #13 Switzerland: 8.06303 per 1,000 people

    #17 United States: 7.09996 per 1,000 people

    Philisophically speaking, I wonder what’s more important though, stopping people being murdered, or stopping someone stealing your XBox 360.

    Cultural attitude is the problem, not just access to guns.

    We have a problem with alcohol abuse in this country. We sit there supposedly confused how our neighbours in Europe can have much more lax laws yet still don’t have half as many death by liver cirrocis, alcohol related violence and youth binge drinking. The truth is, as a society, we do not have a responsible outlook or attitude to how alcohol is bought and sold or consumed. The governement relaxed alcohol laws because, hey if it worked in Europe…

    Guess what, the problem isn’t any better, because until our country as a people adopts a more positive attitude on how alcohol is consumed, then the problem won’t go away without someone stepping in and severely limiting who, where, when and how people have access to it until we do. Not banning it outright, but limiting access.

    That’s why Switzerland is in the middle of that graph and not at the top. Culturally you’ll probably find their attitude to guns is a little more restrained than I find in the US people, regardless of the fact they are required to have one.

    So the truth is, until the US can get a more healthy, less calavier attitude towards guns, this will always always be a problem. And the more you sweep it under the carpet with shouts of “it’s our right” the bigger the problem will become.

    No one factor is to blame in all of this. But unless people acknowledge ALL the factors (and the “right” to own a gun at this point, is a factor) then no real progress will be made.

  12. Jarek, your views disturb me. I’m not sure whether

    Banning guns doesn’t stop crime, so don’t even try and make out that’s what we’re trying to say. It does however, reduce a nut job’s ability to murder 20+ people in the space of 30 minutes.

    By the way the US rates #24 for crime rates related to murder in the world, the UK is #46.

    http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

    Don’t make up statistics to defend your rather worrisome world view.

    We have crime, but touch wood since tightening up gun laws we haven’t had anyone gun down a school in nearly 20 years and counting.

    I’d rather they’d legalised pot and banned guns back in the day, it might be a less dangerous world where the US citizen so vehemently asserted it’s second amendment right to toke a doob rather than hold possession of a killing tool in some misguided paranoidal pretense of self-defence.

  13. Correction: the person the quote about Campea target shooting was targeted at: I apologize. You probably didn’t read it because it wasn’t in the main news, it was in the blog. My mistake.

  14. The reason violence is so prevelant here in the U.S. is because we have nut jobs here. It’s not because of guns, it’s not because of media, it’s because we have insane people here. It’s true: the U.S. is full of morons. However, it’s funny that England (who had incredibly strict gun laws) has a higher crime rate than we do. Hahaha.

    The argument that guns have no purpose except to kill may be true, but that doesn’t mean that that is the only thing they’re used for: target practice (oh yeah, Campea went target shooting, guess you ignored that) and self defense. Just because someone is breaking into your home doesn’t mean you necessarily want to kill them, you may just want to fire some warning shots or wound them so they’ll leave and you know, not kill you. Ever heard of self defense? Apparently we here in America value human life a lot more than other countries, including our own because we aren’t into the whole “guns are bad, people shouldn’t have them, they’ll shoot themselves” argument.

    You know what I feel like I lack in life without a gun? Protection. An level playing field. A certain way to defend my home and my country and my life and my family and possibly others’. Because if you don’t have a gun, chances are the other guy will. A knife doesn’t stop a bullet (ever seen Indiana Jones?). That’s why a gun is called an “equalizer”.

    Chisox, your fear of “sending kids to school with guns for protection” is completely off the map, completely ludicrous (sp?), insane, and not believeable. Seriously.

    I am only for people carrying/owning guns who have proper training (which is what you have to do to carry a concealed weapon here in this state). Anyone who does NOT have proper training/license to own/carry is in my view, a danger to himself/others. Also, someone who has a gun but doesn’t feel like they could properly use it in time of need – shouldn’t have them. Only people who will use them properly should have them.

    BTW, Mexicans ARE threatening our borders. You might wanna start reading the news more often. You know, keep up with what’s going on in the world.

    BTW, “Dom”, a gun IS a nice tool. I love the fact that it can easily kill something without me having to get my hands dirty doing it. Or clothes.

  15. I don’t buy the ‘too many guns’ issue. Over here, EVERYONE is legaly required to have an amry issued automatick if not more at home. I have a friend who is higher up in the civil defense, and he has a rocket launcher at home.

    Yet people don’t constantly run out killing each other. Some might say ‘Well, it happened in Davos.’ True, it did. Once. Five years ago. But in a country where almost all 6 million citizins have enough firepower to start a war, if guns were the problem, we should all be dead by now.

  16. I just think people look for an easy out “oh its the movies fault…oh its the musics fault”

    I am not denying perhaps they might tip someone over and inspire them but these people were always going to kill…no film turned them into a killer

    and I hate this crap that hot fuzz is getting bad reviews now….and people are saying that this is bad timing for it to come out…but I though america are fine with guns and they don;t want major gun control..in fact I keep seeing people say they don;t think the solution is less guns but more guns…so ehy would that hurt hot fuzz…i smell hypocrisy

  17. sorry chisox…can you please tell me where in oldboy does the lead go on a shooting spree in a university ..locking students in a room and opening fire on them??

    I just don’t remember that scene

  18. I agree with the possibility that the media have some degree of influence over the choices we make. But ultimately, the decision to take any action rests solely with the individual.

    We like to create scapegoats because, as Mr. Campea said, we try to find answers that have nothing to do with us. The sad truth is that our environment, family, friends, acquaintances, and even our choice of entertainment have a bigger effect on us than we realize.

    But that does not mean a killer can escape culpability for his or her crime by blaming the media. Placing the blame on a movie or video game is just plain stupid. While the item in question can influence a person to some degree, it’s ludicrous to believe that anyone would willingly surrender their free will to a piece of entertainment.

    Take me, for instance. I love the Nightmare on Elm Street movies. I’ve watched them countless times over the last fifteen years or so. When I was twelve, I wanted to be Freddy Krueger for real. Fortunately I grew older and wiser, and I realized that would not be the best choice I could make for myself. I love horror movies, and while I don’t deny that they’ve had an effect on me, I know I’d have only myself to blame if I went on a killing spree.

    When you get right down to it, the Virginia Tech killer made a choice, a bad one. We may never know what the ultimate cause was, or how his violence was triggered. But we can’t bury our heads in the sand and pretend that it has nothing to do with us. We make choices (or not) and then deal with the consequences (or not). But the final responsibility for a person’s actions rests with that person, with their free will.

    I hope I don’t come off sounding like a nut. I’m expressing my opinion and my personal beliefs regarding morality and responsibility. It all boils down to free will.

  19. Well I’m glad I don’t live in the US where guns are so easy to purchase.
    Are guns in the US used for protection or to spread death and fear? Or do they just hang on peoples walls or something?

    In Sweden where I live, we have had very few incidents with psycho gunners, and none of the same magnitude as have occered in the US. How can that be when we get the same movies, computer games and music as you do in the US? We probably have the same proportion of psychos here too.

    Could it have anything to do with the fact that we have a much tougher gun control in Sweden than you do in the US?

    Although I can enjoy a game of Counter Strike from time to time, I still don’t feel I lack something in my life just because I don’t own a gun. What is the fun in that?

  20. Jarek you proved my point. Alcohol is too readily available, that’s why there are so much alcohol related deaths.

    What is the purpose of a nuclear weapon? What is the purpose of a missile? Those are what I relate guns to. Weapons of mass destruction.

    My fear is that people will get so paranoid that eventually they are going to send there kid to school with guns for protection. Where every individual will walk down the street with a gun. We are spiraling down this path.

  21. Legal guns should only be in the possession of people trained to use them and trained to use them for a purpose. A positive purpose. A responsible purpose.

    These include but are not exclusive to certain aspects of the police force and the, funnily enough, armed forces.

    They should not be given out to any Tom, Dick or Harry who thinks because it’s his right to own a gun, he should, just because well, because it’s his right as an American goddamn it and he passed the background check that didn’t include noterising the 100 home made videos he has in his basement where he records in his monologues about cleansing the earth of sinners through hot lead!

    I don’t need it for any positive purpose, hell I don’t even realistically need it for self defence, but it’s my right, so bring it on!

    I fear however, the USA has dug it’s own hole on that one as guns are so prolific now, how could you properly tightly control them at this point.

    Catch-22.

  22. I’m with Dom.

    I never fixed a shelf or repaired my car radiator with a gun.

    I can cut my bread with a knife. I can butter my toast with a knife. I can perform an emergency trachiotomy with a knife. A knife has positive uses.

    A gun can’t do shit all like that. A gun can riddle someone with deadly holes. Erm… that’s about it.

    Calling a weapon a tool is the kind of naive and dangerous attitude that makes it so easy for people who snap to get hold of them in the first place.

    Gun is a tool for killing. Nothing more. If your trade is murder, your tool is a gun. If your trade is hunting for food in the jungle, your tool is a gun. If you’re at war, your tool to defend your life is a gun.

    I don’t see much need for guns to hunt for food in the country that gave birth to McDonalds and Burger King.

    I don’t see the Mexicans and Canadians threatening your borders, or the British coming back for their damn tea.

    Well I suppose they serve another useful purpose; fear and intimidation. Which incidentally are tools of crime. Or a police state. Kewl.

  23. Hey Chisox, drunk driving deaths are much more prevelent (sp?) in the United States than gun deaths are. And alcohol is MUCH more easy to attain than a gun is. And cheaper. So are cars.

    Alcohol, guns, and knives are tools. They can be used for good or bad. Blaming them because some people can’t control themselves punishes the vast more majority of people that do, and shifts blame from the individual who uses them for bad.

  24. The real reasons behind violent acts like at V Tech aren’t the violence in video games or movies because millions of people see those movies and play those games. That kid is just messed up and HE may look at those movies and HE may play those games and HE chooses to go nuts. But look at what all those kids were into (Columbine, Virginia Tech,etc.)….. They were all on psych drugs and under psychiatric influence. Anna Nicole’s son dead (psyche drugs), Anna Nicole herself dead (psyche drugs), Mike Tyson loses his touch and goes extra nuts (psych drugs written all over that situation).

    You see, you people say we need to actually open our minds and try to actually find the reasons and the answers behind these things, but when somebody goes on air and says that psyche drugs are being shelved out too heavily to kids (and adults as well) and that “psychiatry is a pseudo science” based off of actually doing their own heavy research, you bash them like “oh what a crazy idiot. That can’t be because… well because drugs are the answer to all pains and ills because that’s what psychiatrists say” hmmmm. Maybe you all should do some of your own real research behind it without having some professor in your ear telling you what HIS perspective is on the subject and just look at it with a non-bias view and find out if the people that blame psychiatry could be in fact correct.

  25. The sad thing is the guy sent the package to NBC. So he was clearly craving media attention for his act.

    Every news report, editoral and blog entry, no matter how well intentioned, only validates what he wanted. It also only contributes to the idea that people in the media will throw their 2 cents in to anything that they think will get them ratings or hits.

    Even now me, posting on this, contributes to him “winning” for want of a better word.

    Just my thought.

  26. Chris the Washington Post didn’t have to try to link the movie Oldboy to the VT killer. The killer followed it exactly. Did you even see the film? Both the character in Oldboy and the VT killer are mirror image of each other. In Cho Seung-Hui mentally unstable state the film gave him validity. He also referenced The Matrix twice in the his pictorials.

  27. Yes Jarek I partially blame gun’s for gun violence, alcohol for drunk driving, drugs for drug usage, etc. The way I see it we have a world where certain people cannot self govern themself. They cannot be trusted to make rational decisions. The fact that these vices are so readily available to these individuals troubles me.

    Yes there is a double standard with guns vs knife. With a gun the kill rate is much higher. It is the weapon of mass destruction. A murder can commit his crime with both but the gun is WAY more destructive. How can you not understand that premise?

  28. In addition to me earlier comments, if you really want something interesting on this subject, watch the NBC report

    http://msnbc.vo.llnwd.net/e1/video/podcast/pdv_nn_netcast_wmv-04-20-2007-170239.wmv

    At about 5 minutes or so, there is a comment about the killer wrote how he was inspired by… the Columbine shootings. Why? Because they were given enough media attention. If you want to do someting so horrific, our media (on both sides of the ocean) are more than willing to give you attention for a few weeks.

    That is the final cry of these killers… remember me.
    It becomes a game of copy cat. Since the VA Tech strike, there have been 22 states with scares (some legitimate). Psychologists say they are inspired by those who see the killer as ‘successful.’

  29. i agree john…..in the Washington Post (my local paper) i writer tried to link the VT murders to Oldboy and John Woo films…..its funny to me, when we are faced with evil in this country that we dont understand we make up reasons….”oh this movie, music, book influenced him to kill”…..what happened to plain ol crazy and evil….it seems to me like a form of stereotyping….oh some asian kid went psycho and killed people with two pistols….its gotta be that john woo flick The Killer or that asian movie Oldboy…..its funny that no matrix films have been said to influence him…..its weird…

    also in the Washington Post a reviewer gave Hot Fuzz a bad review….not because they didn’t like the movie….but because of “timing” bullshit….this was a horrible tragety that couldn’t be avoided…..for us to try and find reasons and point fingers doesn’t do anything but hurt the real victims…

    good post john

    peace….

  30. First off does the media effect people of course it does .If it didn’t would companies spend billions of dollars on commercials and paying money to movie maker just to show their product for a few seconds on screen if what we see didn’t effect you.
    did movies have something to do with this,yes.
    did the media glorifying these stories have something to do with it ,yes.
    would this guy have done something like this without them,yes.

    No matter what is done we will never stop every bad thing from happening somewhere,people do very crazy things.
    blameing the movies or the news or the gun that did it is stupid.
    Saying that guns have no purpose other than to kill someone or something and should be banned is just wrong.What if some person is breaking into your home and ready to kill your whole family then having a gun and killing that SOB is a very good thing.

  31. Based on Chisox’s assessment on guns, I wonder if he blames alcohol for drunk driving then? What about knives for stabbing? A double standard.

    Why should I give up MY rights because a few individuals get a warped sense of reality? You give up your rights man, have at it. I’ll keep mine and keep on enjoying life.

  32. people act like violence didn’t exist before movies though…..

    it is as if all the “evil” in the world is the fault of popular culture and that is ridiculous. I mean columbine was being blamed on marilyn manson and then eventually it came out that neither of the two killersd owned one of his albums.

    Blaming movies and music is the easy cheap way to try and rationalise the irrational…..Just read a few history books to see that murder wasn;t invented with the motion picture camera….

    Humans are violent by nature al;ways have been alwasy will be….

    These movies and bands that get blamed sometimes have been seen by or have sold too millions and millions of people…..So what if this kid had seen old boy. So have I…how many people here right now have seen it?? did any of you walk out saying “wow for some weird reason I totally feel like I could kill a bunch of people now”…no you didn’t….so out of the millions of people who saw the film we have this one guy who may have been inspired by it…one out of millions.

    this guy was going to kill someone eventually. No film made him or turned him into a killer.

    this guy was deranged and in a weird way I feel sorry for him too when I see those videos. That is not a happy person having a great time in life. He was completely insane and obviously miserable. I personally don;t believe in just good and evil. It isn;t black and white like that. I don;t believe you are born evil. I believe in insanity and some people are so imbalanced mentally that these things happen.

    I don;t even know where I am going with this now but I saw on CNN the old boy picture and I thought…”here we go again – desperately searching for someone or something to blame” and it pissed me off.

  33. The bible says that God created humans as free moral agent. Humans whose destiny is not pre determined, but free to make his or her own choices in life. I am assuming that people (religious or non) who don’t support gun laws subscribe to this basic premise. However it is possible that what a person see and go through in life can warp his or her reality? I say yes, especially if that person is mentally disturbed. If a child is raised in a family of racists, most likely the child is going to grow up to become one. He is morally wrong for thinking how he does but he is not 100% guilty because of the way he things. There are many variables in life that an individual goes through that make them act and say certain things. Nobody is born a cold blooded killer. I don’t believe individuals who commit such crimes are possessed by evil. I believe they are molded that why through variables in there development, whether it be abuse, mental disorder, poverty, lack of self esteem, etc

    I think we are in an age where people need to start thinking rationally and with perspective. Yes the blame ultimately falls on Seung-Hui Cho but what if that Seung-Hui Cho didn’t have or could not get access to a gun? He would probably use another weapon like a knife. He might of stabbed 2 people to death instead of 32 before someone tackled him. The victim is pretty much handicapped if the perpetrator has a gun. What if there where no films that portrayed unnecessary and sadistic violence and they were replaced with movies themed with love and forgiveness. Would Seung-Hui Cho have learned to forgive the kids who picked on him for his shyness if he had seen a movie that dealt with love and forgiveness? I believe it would have if it affected him as much as the movies he watched. It’s obvious the movies Oldboy and The Matrix influenced his actions. He is still responsible for his action but in his twisted mind the movies help give him validate his actions. Seung-Hui Cho from what I am reading had very serous problems. His social skills where none existent and having kids bully him didn’t help; he really was living in his own world. There are millions of people like him. I was one of them.

    I was probably the biggest loner coming out of middle school. I was picked on for my accent; I was shy around girls, never looked people in the eye, etc. In high school it changed. I got muscular my voice got deeper and I became more comfortable around people. Some people never overcome this problem. It can carry over into there adult life and cause serious mental and social problems. To be picked on constantly year after year like a slow death. It really fucks you up. You loose all sense of reality. You never let go of grudges and latch onto anybody that will accept you. You parent’s can’t help you because there either working 48 hours a week for minimum wage to feed you or there are too knee deep into there six figure job to pay you any attention.

    Being on both side of the fence I can easily say that I would give up some freedom to make the world a better place. Gun’s which are mankinds worst creation has no other purpose but to kill people and defenseless little animals needs to be banned. Violence is movies need to be curbed before it gets way out of hand.

    Battle Royale, Saw, and Hostel YUCK

  34. To quote a guy from Scream, “movies don’t create psychos, movies make psychos more creative”. It’s as simple as that. But most people don’t seem to get it.

  35. I think it might be due to the fact that America lacks something called gun control. Yes music probably influenced him, but he obviously had problems anyway. The reason a tragedy happened not just another another person to film jumping off a bridge is because anyone can acquire a gun…

  36. Now that I’ve seen the two pictures (I’d read about this report before) I have to say the resemblence is enough for me to say that he probably took this single photograph because he saw that film.

    That said, it doesn’t add up to meaning all that much when it comes to profiling him or discovering the “why” because it doesn’t match anything else.

    Despite being a native of Southwest Virginia, a former employee of VT, and being married to an alum, I don’t expect to ever understand “why.” Which is why the news media and their constant nitpicking is making me angry right now.

    Why do we have this constant need to understand? To point fingers? To assign blame?

    All that being said, from some psychology classes I’ve taken, there have been cases where violence committed on other people was shown to be related to violence in video games and movies. People and children watching violent images have been shown to sometimes act out more violently.

    I’m not saying I agree, I usually am the person standing up and saying that just because I play a violent game doesn’t mean I’m going to do anything about it. I’ve always used killing monsters in games as an outlet for my frustration. BUT, the point has to be examined by cool and educated minds, which is where I agree with you. We should really look at this.

    I think, personally, that the answer is going to be that violent games and movies and images do influence us. But each individual is influenced differently, and someone who is already a sociopath, who already has reached that snapping point in their brain, is going to take that influence and use it as inspiration.

  37. We are influenced in some way by everything but it should fall upon the individual to take responsibility for their actions. In the case of the VA Tech tragedy people are looking for a reason as to why it took place. Unfortunately it is something that will probably be known since Cho Seung-Hui killed himself and all we have left are bits and pieces that give some insight into his state of mind.

    Movies, music, videogames, books, etc… all influence us, sometimes positive and some times not so much but we are responsible for our own actions. The makers of Oldboy nor the makers of videogames that he played should be blamed. Blaming them is equal to blaming the makers of a knife for the stabbing and suicide that happened. People want someone to be held accountable for the tragedy, unfortunately the one to place blame on killed himself.

  38. This reminds me of that scene from Bowling for Columbine when Michael Moore asks Marilyn Manson:

    “If you were to talk directly to the kids at Columbine or the people in that community, what would you say to them if they were here right now?”

    Manson then replies:

    “I wouldn’t say a single word to them, I would listen to what they have to say and that’s what no one did.”

  39. Very good post, John. Thanks. I really enjoyed reading that. We, as a society, cannot blame violence in movies or music for this stuff. There were no slasher movies or rock music to blame when there were serial killers in the 1800’s and early 1900’s. There are just some f**ked up people out there that don’t value human life as much as others.

  40. John,

    A very well thought out, measured response to these senseless acts. Congratulations. This is the best commentary I have heard on the subject. Which is kinda sad because this the Movie Blog. Too bad Fox News has Geraldo and CNN has Wolf Blitzer. You are much better spoken. It shows you the sad state of Western media.

    To say this guy was motivated primarily by movies and media is stupid. The only people who do these things are people who already have evil in their heart. Media may be a means of how to fulfill that evil but not neccessarily the fuel. At least, not by itself. But it’s also stupid to say movies and media had NO affect on him either. After all, he did record himself on VIDEO and mail it to NBC NEWS. Obviously this guy was looking for the notariety in death he couldn’t get in life, so in that respect, he was very motivated by media.

    Anyway, again, thanks for the great post John.

  41. Well put John.

    You raise an interesting point. MAYBE.

    I was raised in a time when Judas Priest was put on trial and I thought it was stupid.

    How would any sane person be moved to violence because of a movie? But these people that commit such acts really aren’t what society would deem sane. Maybe movies are culpable. Maybe music is as well.

    The question becomes if they are, what do we do about it? How does a society protect itself from a very small insane group without giving up all its freedoms. Tough questions.

    In reality we can never sanitize the world from horrific acts. People will find justification for their evil someway. This guy Cho said he was doing it for the weak… that’s how he justified it to himself.

    I don’t know. MAYBE there is an answer or maybe not.

  42. I believe that violent people are drawn to violent entertainment. They do add to those people’s fantasies, but I hardly think that they’ll drive the average person to kill people. The guy obviously had problems that even the profs had identified. If he didn’t watch any of those movies, he would probably still end up killing someone eventually.

  43. I’m tired of Virigina Tech.

    I’m tired of 911.

    I’m tired of my local news station reporting the latest death toll from Iraq.

    In general, I’m tired of global awareness.

    Call me a cynic.
    Call me a pessimist.
    Call me unamerican.

    However, I’m just saying what I believe a lot of people around the country are feeling right now. It’s just too much.

    This post is right. It’s not that there is violence in the media, or our school system. It’s the fact that everyone knows about it now in a MAJOR way. The news glorifies the shooter by stating, “largest school shooting in history!” at the beginning of every report. I can only say that records are always broken and some maladjusted little psycho out there just thought, “I can beat his high score”!

    I long for a bygone time when news had to come from a newspaper and when something happened I wouldn’t know about it 10 minutes later via blogsites or a news ticker across the bottom of my TV screen. I believe ignorance is bliss. I believe that a little “head in the sand” mentality won’t hurt anyone. It’s the desensitizing that comes with the experience of living with violence that really angers me. I’m angry with myself for being so blaise about a school shooting and it’s not that I don’t feel bad for the families of those individuals who lost their lives senselessly, but I don’t think that I would be so bored with the story if I wasn’t so bombarded by the news stories that accompany every hour of my day. I’m a victim here too and I’m dying by violent crimes — every night on my TV.

    On one last note: Does anyone else find it interesting that right below this post was a rave review about a major hack-em-up slasher film? I’m a huge fan of this site but I just found it a bit odd.

  44. Great piece John and great comments from everyone. I don’t think i can add much more. I do tend to look at things simply and for my two cents, though this too conforms to my world (though i hope not too narrow minded) view of course, i am a believer in the gene pool. We are born with the characteristics that will stick with us through our whole lives and people, with few exceptions, don’t really change at their core. That’s why i’m quite tolerant of arseholes. It’s just how they came out:)

    The kind of people who are capable of an act such as this, i think, were bound to do so at some stage. After all, if you can’t recognise the boundaries of morality for normal human beings, even in a film or game, you’re fucked up, put simply. Who’s to say what finally triggers these killers to do what they do, but it’s not a question of what caused it. It’s simply a question of sooner or later. Such tragedies are the result of unavoidable, ticking time bombs, and i don’t know how anybody could explain why it has to happen. But I’m not articulating very well; never mind.

    Like i said, it’s my own view of the world and thanks to John’s wise words, i can recognise that now. Don’t shy away from discussing this tonight if you want to John. It’s a great issue.

  45. When something like this happens, everybody rushes to point the finger at everyone but the person who is responsible. What happened at Virginia Tech is tragic but people need to blame the shooter, not what movie he decided to mimic is his sick little message.

  46. You know what, I was getting ready to comment about how fucking stupid anyone who says movies make people do stipid shit, but then I finished reading your post, and you’re right.

    I haven’t read any real honest indepth studies. I don’t know anything. I have my opinion, but I should be smart enough to be willing to have my opinon honestly looked at and examined and keep an open mind.

    Good article john boy.

  47. How about other movie genres? They don’t seem to influence people. Movies with violence shouldn’t be any different. We don’t have John break into song because he likes Moulin Rouge (I won’t get into the break dancing). Most of the violent movies they are talking about are coming from East Asia, and I don’t hear about people there going on a shooting spree because they saw it in a movie.

    The problem that this guy had was that he had a serious mental problem and people knew well in advance but was unable to get him help. And before the government starts bitching about the violence in movies and video games, they need to good look at their gun laws and ask themselves how someone who had a history of mental illness would be able to purchase 2 handguns and ammunition. We seem to live in a society where we like to point fingers, blame others and not take responsibility.

    By the way, I do like to play the Grand Theft Auto Games but I don’t have an urge to go carjacking and killing pedestrians.

  48. John, I visit your site several times a day for several years now and I wanted to thank you for taking time out and space on your site to write about the events that happened at VA Tech on Monday. While I go to Radford University which is about 15 miles south of VA Tech, my girlfriend and a lot of my friends go to VA Tech. Not only has this event shocked the community surrounding VA Tech but it has affected the entire state as well. This whole thing still seems surreal and driving/walking by campus feels like it should never have happened in the first place. It’s also surreal seeing all the media in the area. Though VA Tech is known for their football and does get some media attention on game days from ESPN, it’s nothing compared to this. The media has had a field day with this whole thing. At first it was actually news worthy, but now they are just milking it dry. As the grieving and healing process ends and begins, now it’s time to start pointing fingers and put the blame on someone else because that coward had to kill himself. The media is trying to talk about gun control and other sorts of things that are similar to what you were discussing about in your post. I also agree with what Donald above had to say and the reasons gave. Thank you once again.

  49. First and foremost, John, I would like to congratulate you on that very well written opening post. I also want to congratulate you on pointing out a few things. We do just look for answers that fit into our comfortable, familiar world and if the REAL answer that is blindingly obvious is far removed from what we’re used to we DO tend to just stick our head in the sand and pretend it doesn’t exist.

    Did the killing at Virginia have anything to do with the movie Oldboy? I, like you John, don’t thinks so. It’s true that the pictures DO resemble it in a lot of ways but haven’t people heard of a little think called a “coincidence”? Is it possible that they have seens these pictures and plus the fact that the guy was himself Korean (along with where the movie was made) and just linked them without thinking? It’s true that in time of grief sucha as this that people can be forgiven for placing blame on something or someone without thinking.

    But let me ask everyone this; what did the crime (murders) he commited have to do with the actual (Oldboy) film itself? Does anything in the movie resemble in any way, shape or form the crime he commited.

    Even IF the guy did see the film Oldboy, do you really think ONE MOVIE was the sole reason for him killing 30+ people? The film may have just popped into his mind when making those tapes (which btw I think NO ONE (the public I mean) should have been allowed to see because that means the guy got what he wanted in all ways possible) and he was just using those images as a symbol to what he was doing. But that doesn’t mean it’s that movie’s, or the media in general’s fault.

    If movies in general were SO effecting then why are incidents that get related to them (movies) happen very seldomly? I think blame is just being assigned because as I said this is a time for grief and since the person who WAS ACTUALLY responsible for the murders is dead, everyone needs someone/something to point the finger at and unfortunately through this set of circumstances it is being unjustly pointed at movies.

  50. That’s like in Switzerland. We have a lot of problems with teenage rape. Everyone blames it on porn. But if you look at the social problems in the area, it is a much larger problem than a bunch of kids watching porn.

    Virginia Tech is already being a bit abused in the media. Today CNN tells us that the students are being ‘honored’. I know it is cruel to say, but for what? They can be mourned, we can ‘honor their memory’. But when you honor someone, it is supposed to be because they did something. We honor a president or a soldier.

    It seems as if we want to demonize the person who did this and turn the victims into something they werent. Why do I say this here? Because the more victimized someone looks, the more we have a thirst for blood. And the more that is true, the easier it is for us to believe claims that ‘this is to blame and that is to blmae.’ Don’t misunderstand this posting either. I am not saying that these people deserved to die, nor am i saying that it wasn’t a horrible, horrible act. But we need to recognize things for what they are:
    1) The students were victims
    2)The killer was a VERY troubled soul who needed help
    3) no one factor is to blame

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